Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lancaster Barnstormers/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 01:17, 30 September 2008.

Lancaster Barnstormers

 * Nominator(s): JaMikePA (talk)

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I believe that the page is well-written and includes all relevant info regarding the team. JaMikePA (talk) 19:42, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Please close and archive the peer review. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 20:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Comments regarding images:
 * Image:Barnstormers Cap Logo.PNG - Why is this needed in the presence of Image:LancasterBarnstormers.PNG? Both have the same stylized L and baseball.  Both have the same (verbatim) purpose of "The significance of the logo is to help the reader identify the organization, assure the readers that they have reached the right article..."  Why are two non-free images needed to fulfill this same purpose (WP:NFCC#3B)? All baseball team pages have both the primary and cap logos.JaMikePA (talk) 22:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:RedRoses.JPG - needs a verifiable source (WP:IUP vis-a-vis NFCC#6) and a rationale (NFCC#10C)
 * Image:CodeRed.PNG - needs a caption per criterion 3, needs a rationale and appears to be freely replaceable (NFCC#1 - given that it is illustrating "When a Code Red is called, all team management and loyal fans wear red shirts to support the Barnstormers", why wouldn't a picture of the fans wearing red suffice?)
 * Image:War of the Roses.PNG - needs a caption and a rationale for this article. Эlcobbola  talk 20:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

–Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  20:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose
 * http://www.atlanticleague.com/rw_roster06.pdf is dead.
 * http://www.minorleaguenews.com/rawfeed/html/2006/04/18/06.html ditto.
 * http://www.fox23news.com/sports/mlb/mlbguide/story.aspx?content_id=FF2FABB0-1207-415B-BCEC-4D16FCE631BB again.
 * I'm not sure I like having the Lancaster Barnstormers website as a source for its self.
 * What makes http://www.800padutch.com/ reliable?
 * What makes http://www.ballparkwatch.com/news/2003archives/sept18_sept24.htm reliable?
 * Is http://nbpfaus.net/~pfau/al-info.html reliable?
 * Too many formatted citations, which is the main reason for my oppose. Make sure every last one uses cite web, or some type of proper format.
 * Note, cite templates are not required for featured articles or any article; consistently formatted citations are, per WP:WIAFA, 2c. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 20:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for pointing that out. Was the criteria always like that? I thought I remember reading it a while back saying it had to be cite web or a variation. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  20:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They've never been required, but they can be useful for editors who don't otherwise know how to format citations (even though some of us hate them because they chunk up articles and affect load time). Sandy Georgia (Talk) 21:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - Much more editing is needed before this can be considered among our best work. Here are some problems with the article. Overall, a lot of work will be needed here. For a good idea of what to aim for, read Nashville Sounds, a recently promoted featured article.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 00:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Listen to Julian when he says the references need work. They need access dates, authors, publishers, and publication dates where given. I also share his concerns about there being too many primary sources. Thirteen primary sources out of 35 total is not the worst I've seen, but it would be good to lower this number somewhat.
 * All of the headings in the History subsections violate WP:MOS. Only proper nouns should be capitalized in headings after the first word.
 * Notable Barnstormers: What makes these people notable and not others? This is a big POV problem to me.
 * Why in the world do we need a Quick facts section at the end? Many of these facts are in the infobox, while media-related items could use their own section.
 * What kind of promotions does this team run? This is how minor-league baseball teams draw fans. Even a paragraph or two on any notable promotions the team has run would add some life to the article.
 * Instead of having this many subsections in Tradition and Philanthropy, consider merging these items into 2-3 paragraphs each. Looks stubby in its current form.
 * A brief look at the prose: to remove a redundancy in the third paragraph, try "Baseball fans in Lancaster waited 44 years for the sport to return after the Lancaster Red Roses folded following the 1961 season."
 * Remove the bolding for the Barnstormers in the third paragraph.
 * A couple of facts about the nickname in the lead aren't expanded on or even repeated in the body.
 * Loads of unneeded bolding in the history section.

Thank you everyone for your comments. I will work on the article, though it will take some time.JaMikePA (talk) 03:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose Mostly as above, headings and references not formatted correctly, one sentence paragraphs, and some dubious prose. For example in the lead
 * the team's name is repeated in every one of the first six sentences
 * Can you win a record?
 * The Barnstormers represent all of Lancaster County - why "of"?
 * The Barnstormers designate many of their home games to honor each of the county's smaller communities. "each" is confusing and unneeded
 * as the team colors of red, navy blue, and khaki were the same colors used by Lancaster's former team, the Red Roses. - unnecessary repeat of "color"

I suspect that this may need more work than can be done during FAC jimfbleak (talk) 06:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * We should be moving beyond the robotic linking of the names of commonly known countries (especially anglophone ones). I've zapped them, along with the autoformatting. See MOSNUM. Tony   (talk)  15:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I made several changes to the page with all of your comments in mind. Please review them and tell me what you think.JaMikePA (talk) 17:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.