Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Loss (comic)/archive1

Loss (comic)

 * Nominator(s): GamerPro64  00:54, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

This article is about a comic strip that New York Magazine declared as "the Internet's Longest-Running Miscarriage 'Joke'". A webcomic usually video game focused, Ctrl+Alt+Del made its mark onto the internet by having a storyline where the main characters wife suffers a miscarriage. And ever since the strip was posted, it has experienced a legacy as an internet meme, surpassing its original source material and being fairly recognizable in abstract ways.

The article is short but I believe it meets the criteria for it to become a Featured Article. But I am open to criticisms and ready to improve whatever. GamerPro64 00:54, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Guerillero
Why are these sources high quality RSes
 * 1Up.com
 * 1UP is a reliable source for the Video Game Project. GamerPro64  03:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay but why is it a High Quality RS? -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 14:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * 1Up.com is cited in many featured articles, search "1Up.com" deepcat:"Featured articles" here. ObserveOwl (talk) 15:49, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Reply All
 * Reply All has been a well established podcast for years, covering topics on the internet. GamerPro64  03:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * How is there editorial oversight? -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 14:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Joystiq
 * Joystiq is a reliable source for the Video Game Project. GamerPro64  03:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Joystiq is described as a blog by our article on it. Why is it a High Quality RS? -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 14:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Joystiq is cited in many featured articles (search "Joystiq" deepcat:"Featured articles" here), including South Park: The Stick of Truth, which was "Today's FA" on the Main Page two days ago. ObserveOwl (talk) 15:49, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/South Park: The Stick of Truth/archive1 wasn't a deep review. -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 15:44, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Zero Punctuation
 * Zero Punctuation is a series on The Escapist, which has been an established series on the website for over a decade. GamerPro64  03:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Varsity
 * Are student newspapers usually received differently with reliable sources? GamerPro64  03:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Student newspapers are almost never high quality RSes -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 14:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I removed the Varsity source. GamerPro64  22:11, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

-- Guerillero Parlez Moi 03:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Spicy
I think the prose needs work. Some examples, just from the lead:
 * "is a webcomic strip published on June 2, 2008, by Tim Buckley for his gaming-related webcomic Ctrl+Alt+Del" - redundant.... you can just say "strip"
 * The second sentence reads somewhat clumsily - I would revise it to "Set during a storyline in which the main character Ethan and his fiancée Lilah are expecting their first child, the strip—presented as a four-panel comic with no dialogue—shows Ethan entering a hospital..." Hospital does not need to be linked, per WP:OVERLINK.
 * "Buckley cited personal events in his life as inspiration for the comic." - is 'personal' really necessary here?
 * "Since the publication of the strip, it has garnered negative reception from critics and webcomic creators" - is the first clause needed? Obviously it wouldn't have gotten any reception before it was published...
 * If 'fridging' is going to be mentioned in the lead, there should be a short explanation of what it is. Many people will not be familiar with the term (I am not) and they should not have to click out to another article to understand the lead.
 * Two instances of "garnered" too close together
 * "with edits to the strip being made by other creators" - see User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing... might read better as something like: "... and later gained a legacy as an internet meme. Other creators made edits to the strip..."
 * "and minimalistic representations of the basic visual structure." - I know what this means because I'm familiar with the meme, but I'm unsure if it would be clear to other readers
 * Fixed. ObserveOwl (talk) 23:08, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Other comments:
 * Not sure this really matters for FAC but File:Minimalist_loss.png would work better as an SVG.
 * Done. ObserveOwl (talk) 18:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Agree with concerns about sourcing above - I don't think we should be citing a student newspaper, at least. The sourcing feels very thin in general. I realize there's not going to be an Oxford monograph on Loss.jpg and this could very well be the best you can do but I think this is really pushing it at the FAC level. Spicy (talk) 04:36, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Comments from LEvalyn
On the one hand, it's a strength of this article that it is brief and factual, and avoids the problem of WP:FANCRUFT. On the other hand, it feels somehow flimsy. If this was a Featured Article on the main page, would it be edifying to every wikipedia reader?

The Feldman article does a good job of contextualizing the comic and its impact for an audience that presumably knows almost nothing about it, and might be helpful for more "framing" of the material here.
 * The reception section emphasizes the response from Penny Arcade's artists, which makes sense only for people who know what Feldman says: "If “Penny Arcade” represented the high-water mark of the genre (a more-than-debatable assertion) then “CAD” represented the dozens of lesser imitators." I think the "response" section would benefit from a more "zoomed out" view. I wouldn't quote an obvious joke from PA in the article; rather, a brief paraphrase-- and one that acknowledges their full answer to the interview Q, indicating that some of Buckley's audience liked the comic-- would be more encyclopedic.
 * Given that Feldman says "The last strip to mention Lilah’s pregnancy prior to “Loss” had been published 10 installments and nearly a month prior," it sounds like it only sort of appeared "during a storyline where Ethan and Lilah were expecting their first child" (as the article describes it).

I also wonder if you could find someone in your life who has never heard of Loss.jpg-- a very "offline" relative, maybe-- and ask them to read the article and ask you questions about it; that kind of outside perspective might help identify where the context gaps are. There's been enough retrospective coverage of this meme that I think it can be done, but the writing will take some thorough thinking. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 22:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Coordinator note
Three weeks in and despite attracting some attention, the nomination has no supports and little sign of a consensus to promote forming. Unless this changes over the next two or three days I am afraid this is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:23, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * No significant movement, so I am afraid that this has timed out. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:55, 24 August 2021 (UTC)