Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mark Baldwin (baseball)/archive1

Mark Baldwin (baseball)

 * Nominator(s): Therapyisgood (talk) 14:47, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

This article is about... Mark Baldwin, the former MLB pitcher who currently holds the MLB record for most wild pitches in a single season. Thank you for your reviews in advance. There is also an interesting part in here about his involvement in the Homestead strike as well. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:47, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Comments Support from Chris

 * "Though signed by Chicago White Stockings President" - job title should not have a capital letter
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "Baldwin had asked Secretary Scandrett" - was his first name Secretary?
 * No. Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "and President William A. Nimick consented" - job title should not have a capital letter
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "struck out 18 batters, twelve successively" - numbers should be written consistently
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "After a tryout,[19] Chicago White Stockings President Albert Spalding" - job title should not have a capital letter
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "art of a week in which Baldwin's development "[surprised]" a writer" - I don't think you need to directly quote a single word. Also, why is it in square brackets?
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "hinted he would not sign for the salary of last season" => "hinted he would not sign for the salary of the previous season"
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "In July, Baldwin asked Brooklyn Bridegrooms President" - job title should not have a capital letter
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "The Pirates possibly gave him a ten-day notice due to his involvement in the Homestead strike" - could you give some context as to what this actually was......?
 * Explained better. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:20, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "when the surrender of the Pinkertons occurred" - this reads like readers are already familiar with what happened in this strike, which I for one am not. Hence the request for more context around it......
 * Explained via footnote. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "He lead the team in wins and losses" => "He led the team in wins and losses"
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "He spent the 1894 season for" => "He spent the 1894 season with"
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "he played for a team in Palmyra and was captured by a team in Wheeling of the Iron and Oil League for which to play" - this reads very oddly. Why not just "he played for a team in Palmyra and a team in Wheeling of the Iron and Oil League"
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "Baldwin "spent some time with" Mayo Brothers William James Mayo and Charles Horace Mayo " - again, that last part reads a bit oddly. I would change it to "Baldwin "spent some time with" physicians William James Mayo and Charles Horace Mayo "
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:32, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * comments responded to, thank you for the review. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:25, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Image review

 * Suggest adding alt text
 * Alt texts added. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:51, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * File:Mark_Baldwin_Stevens_Art_Studio_(retouched).png: what is the first known publication of this image? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Derivatives of the work were apparently first published in 1889. See File:Mark Baldwin 1889.jpg and compare that to File:Mark Baldwin Stevens Art Studio (retouched).png. I think the illustration was based on the Stevens Art Studio image. As for the image itself, I really don't think it was published in a legal sense before appearing on eBay in 2023, and if it was I would have seen it going through the newspaper.com archives and The Sporting Life archives somewhere. But I don't know if publication of the derivative image constitutes publication of the actual image. Thank you for the image review. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:51, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Any idea how the creator(s) of the derivative(s) got hold of it? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:54, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * On the back of the image it says "duplicates can be had at any time". So I would assume some illustrators bought or otherwise obtained it from Stevens Art Studio. Whether the illustrators purchased it or just got a copy from Mr. Stevens, the end result is the same, which is this is PD. The only difference is the template. Going off of the definition here of publication, which is in notable part "The offering to distribute copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes of further distribution, public performance, or public display constitutes publication," I would say that it was published when Stevens Art Studio gave or sold it to the illustrators (journalists) for publication in their newspapers. But I'm not a lawyer. The photographer was John Kimball Stevens, who worked out of the McVickers Theatre Building, Chicago. See Commons:Category:J. K. Stevens & Son Co, to which I've added the Mark Baldwin image. I've updated the licenses accordingly. Therapyisgood (talk) 23:42, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt
As nominator of the other baseball article currently at FAC, here's my review. Hope you can find time to give informed input on the other as well!
 * "where he led the league in innings pitched, with 513+2⁄3, losses, with 34, strikeouts, with 368, and walks, with 274." Consider rendering the stats as you do in the next paragraph.
 * Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:45, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "Retrospectively, a PL historian described him as a star of the league." I would expect a historian to be retrospective. "A PL historian has described him as a star of the league" might be better. Similar comment for when you use the word again in the article of the body.
 * Changed in both places. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:45, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "One of two children to the couple," I might put "born" after "children".
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:45, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "attended Pennsylvania State University (PSU)." It wasn't a university yet, I think.
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:45, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "who finished first in the Western Pennsylvania league." If this is the proper name of the league, then "league" should be capped.
 * It is capitalized according to SABR, so capped. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:49, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

"McKeesport manager Frank Torreyson recommended him to Duluth of the Northwestern League as a third baseman in spring 1886. Due to weak pitching, Duluth played Baldwin as a pitcher.[14] Baldwin had asked Pittsburgh Alleghenys secretary Scandrett for a tryout, ... a tryout never happened. Instead, Scandrett wrote a letter recommending Baldwin to Duluth management.[15] OK. Are we happy that both stories are true? If true, you're jumping back and forth between Pennsylvania and Minnesota. If we're happy with the stories, finish Pennsylvania (for now, I guess) before you send him to Minnesota and tell us what happened there.
 * I've re-worked. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * A date when Baldwin was signed by Chicago would be useful, especially if combined with the date that the World Series started. The reader may be familiar with the restriction that a player must have been on the roster on September 1 to play in later World Series.
 * Added dates. Therapyisgood (talk) 00:21, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You don't resolve what happened to Daly.
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 00:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * " Baldwin finished the season at an 18–17 win–loss record" Maybe "with" for "at"?
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:03, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "A monkey bit Baldwin on Spalding's 1888–89 World Tour after he fed it pretzels and beer." Where did this event occur? This source reports what may be the same incident as a serious scratch.
 * Added the reporting that it may have been a serious scratch. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:09, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Added where it happened. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:14, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "strikeouts (368)" it may be worth mentioning that this is more, post-1886, than anyone except Ryan, Koufax and Randy Johnson.
 * Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "When the PL disbanded in a joint NL–AA ratification on January 16, 1891," Ratification? What's that?
 * Clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:42, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It might be mentioned that the Pittsburgh team was playing in the NL, so Baldwin was jumping leagues.
 * Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 00:33, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * How is it that Baldwin could serve as an umpire in 1892? Do other sources confirm this?
 * No other sources confirm this besides the source it's cited to. Removed. Therapyisgood (talk) 01:29, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "due to his lawsuit against von der Ahe," As you have not mentioned this previously, you should say what lawsuit before referring to it casually as here.
 * Mentioned above. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:30, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "the Association–League war of 1891." You haven't mentioned what this is, though one might assume it involved the signing of PL players for which AA teams had old rights.
 * Clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 01:31, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * " the Binghamton Bingoes/Allentown Buffaloes of the Eastern League (EL), the Allentown Kelly's Killers/Easton/Ashland, " Huh?
 * Attempted to clarify. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:37, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Getting back to the World Tour for a minute, I have a source that says that Chicago beat the All-Americans in Melbourne, 5-3, with Baldwin pitching for the winners (not clear if he was the winning pitcher). If this is of interest, send me an email through the Wikipedia system and I'll send the JSTOR article as an attachment.
 * I'm interested. I have access to JSTOR through the Wikipedia library, can you post a link here? Therapyisgood (talk) 00:32, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * here.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:37, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Added, thank you for the source. Therapyisgood (talk) 18:14, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Further on the World Tour, this site may be of interest.
 * Added as an EL. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:42, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That's it for now.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:24, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Wehwalt (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the support, it's taking me a bit with work to get back to these but I promise I'll get them all. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:30, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Comments from Mike Christie
All fairly minor points and I expect to support once these are addressed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "Though signed by Chicago White Stockings president Albert Spalding to pitch in the 1886 World Series, Baldwin did not play after the St. Louis Browns, against whom Chicago played, objected." Not very fluent.  How about "Though signed by Chicago White Stockings president Albert Spalding to pitch against the St. Louis Browns in the 1886 World Series, Baldwin did not play after Browns objected."
 * Much better, changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Link Pittsburgh Alleghenys and Duluth on first mention.
 * Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "According to an article in the Pittsburgh Daily Post, McKeesport manager Frank Torreyson recommended him to Duluth of the Northwestern League as a third baseman in spring 1886. Due to weak pitching, Duluth played Baldwin as a pitcher." Suggest "According to an article in the Pittsburgh Daily Post, McKeesport manager Frank Torreyson recommended him to Duluth of the Northwestern League in spring 1886 as a third baseman, but Duluth played him as a pitcher as their pitching was weak."  Re the clipping that supports this: do you think "on a pinch" definitely refers to him being part of a pinch-hitting move which led to the existing pitcher being pulled?  I'm not enough of a baseball historian to be certain of that, but if it's unambiguous we could expand the article text slightly to make that clear.
 * Changed the wording. I don't think "on a pinch" means that definitively. I think "on a pinch" means they were hard up for pitching. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "As a club, Chicago finished the season ...": suggest "The White Stockings finished the season ...".
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "the bite has been reported alternately as a serious scratch": suggest "alternatively" or (perhaps better) rephrase -- "alternately" implies that reports alternated in sequence between the two versions.
 * Reworded. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "According to Baldwin, Chicago did not restrict alcohol consumption on the tour and after he hinted he would not sign for the salary of the previous season, he was released." These seem to be two unconnected facts; I'm not sure why they're in the same sentence.  Perhaps because they're both Baldwin's comments?  The first part sounds like it belongs more naturally with Anson's comment in the previous sentence.
 * Attempted to clarify. Therapyisgood (talk) 17:18, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * We quote Baldwin on the principles behind the formation of the PL, but never say what they were. Could something brief be added earlier in the paragraph to give that context?
 * Added a statement on principles. Therapyisgood (talk) 18:23, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "The Pinkertons surrendered at around 5:00 PM on July 5 after shots were fired amongst strikers and themselves": suggest "The Pinkertons surrendered at around 5:00 PM on July 5 after both they and the strikers fired shots".
 * I had to check our article Homestead strike to make sure that was historically accurate but it appears to be, so changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:46, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "After professional baseball, Baldwin started medical school at the University of Pennsylvania in fall 1898, where he coached the university's baseball team the year prior": any reason not to reverse the order of these events so the reader gets them chronologically?
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 16:46, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * comments responded to. Therapyisgood (talk) 18:23, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:45, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Doing. - SchroCat (talk) 08:04, 11 October 2023 (UTC) Spot checks not done. The refs are all mostly OK, but the following need a tweak or two:
 * Source review
 * FN4: Tiemann, Robert L. (1996). "Marcus Elmore Baldwin". I presume this is a chapter? If so, can you add the page range for the chapter
 * It's an entry in an encyclopedia. Had to find my copy but now added. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:06, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * FNs 8, 17 & 25: The Sporting Life is a newspaper, not a journal. You should also remove "The Sporting Life Publishing" as none of the other newspapers have publisher info. (x 3 uses) Last edition, 5:00 pm
 * Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * FN31: "Last edition, 5:00 pm" shouldn't be floating around outside the template. If you think it is important enough to add it, use the "edition=" field within the cite news template
 * Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * FNs43, 61 & 107: "McFarland, Incorporated": we tend to drop the Inc, Ltd, etc
 * Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * FN76: Why, for references like baseball-reference.com, you have "work=Baseball-Reference", but for this one you have "publisher=Retrosheet"?
 * Fair. Changed to work. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * FN83: Why do you have the publisher listed here, but not for any other journals? Either have or have not for all.
 * Removed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

That's all – all minor formatting points. - SchroCat (talk) 08:50, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Cheers - all good except the first one is still outstanding. - SchroCat (talk) 20:30, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the source review, comments responded to. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:06, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Thanks Therapyisgood! Searches into other possible sources showed nothing obvious missed (please note, I am not familiar with baseball or it’s reliable sources, but general searches showed no additional sources that had been missed for this article. All good, and a pass on the source review. - SchroCat (talk) 22:28, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * SC
 * Support. Separate from the above source review, I’m also happy that the prose is, as far as I can see, suitable for FAC. - SchroCat (talk) 22:28, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The second item in External links could use an access date. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:38, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 12:38, 12 October 2023 (UTC)