Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Marojejy National Park/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain 04:14, 14 March 2011.

Marojejy National Park

 * Nominator(s): –  VisionHolder « talk » 15:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel this article meets the FAC criteria. I should note that some sources (primarily the two dedicated books) are so intricately detailed that I suspect multiple article are needed—such as a "Habitats of ...", "Conservation of ...", "Flora of ...", and "Fauna of ...". I know Marojejy Massif needs its own article, and that is where a lot of the gory details on geology should go. The article is already 52k, which means it has a little room to grow, but I'm worried too much detail will detract from the point of the article. With that said, I feel that I have hit upon all the important points. I also hope that I have avoided any pitfalls, such as WP:NOTAGUIDE. –  VisionHolder « talk » 15:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Support. I did the GA review, and feel the article comprehensively covers the main aspects of the topic. Ucucha 15:33, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support - An impressive article. The geology section checks out, and the article seems comprehensive to me. Prose is, as usual, very good.  ceran  thor 21:19, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Sources comments: One issue: Ref 6 needs a page no. (the source has 200+ pages). Otherwise, sources & citations all look good. Brianboulton (talk) 11:52, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot if I added that source, or if one of my French collaborators did. To be honest, I don't have the book.  I'm not even sure if it's been digitized.  Plus it's in French.  If anything I saw it as a reference that points to the original work that was being described.  I can see if my French collaborators have access to the book and see if they can get a page number.  Alternatively, I can remove the ref.  –  VisionHolder  « talk » 13:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * We found the page number, and it's been added. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Sasata (talk) 18:49, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "It covers 60,050 ha (231.9 sq mi) and is centered around the Marojejy Massif" I think this should state explicitly that this is a chain of mountains (especially since it's redlinked and in the lead)
 * Mentioned. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "…was set aside as a strict nature reserve in 1952, allowing only research scientists to visit the site." perhaps link nature reserve, and tweak the noun + ing
 * Fixed. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Rainforests of the Atsinanana World Heritage Site" could you adjust so the links aren't consecutive?
 * Done. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Warm, lowland rainforest can be found at lower elevations" Isn't "lowland" redundant?
 * Fixed. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think species, bird, reptile and amphibian are high-value links for the lead
 * Removed. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Treks to the summit set out from Camp Simpona, a route that stretches 2 km (1.2 mi) and can take up to 4 or 5 hours." I don't quite understand what this means… does "set out" mean "start from"? Is it not possible to trek to the summit from a lower camp? Also, spell out numbers less than 10.
 * Done, I think. The sources don't explicitly state it, but with a hike of 4 to 5 hours one-way, going up and back would make for a very full day, especially if you plan to spend some time on the summit. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "L.-J. Arragon -> no way to find his full name?
 * Didn't see anything on Google Scholar or Books. Coming from 1937, I'm not sure if we can find anything easily. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I looked myself and couldn't find anything, other than a few reports that use the spelling "Agaron" "Aragon". Sasata (talk) 03:53, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Between November 1948 and November 1950, he spent a total of five months collected 4,039 dried plant (herbarium) specimens for study." can we eliminate "a total of"? I understand you're probably trying to convey that the elapsed time is not contiguous, but I think the meaning is not lost if those words are left out. Also, link herbarium, and fix the grammar.
 * Fixed. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "In 1998, the status changed as Marojejy became a national park." Shouldn't use "as" if you mean "because" or "since", otherwise the meaning becomes slightly ambiguous.
 * Reworded. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "…Marojejy was listed as World Heritage Site…" missing "a"?
 * Fixed. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think the decree number is useful information, unless it is also specified what organization make the decree.
 * I was trying to be comprehensive, especially since the source list these. Upon review of the source, it does mention the Malagasy government, so I added it. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "not understanding why" noun + ing; actually, it might be a good idea to review the entire article for this
 * I've done my best with this one. Copy-editing is my weakest skill by far, but I have done my best with the rest of the article.  Let me know if I missed anything. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Disputes with the local community are handled with intermediate boundary markers." ? Is an "intermediate boundary marker" a person who handles disputes?
 * I've attempted to clarify. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Better, but I'm still not sure how the placement of the markers "handles disputes". Sasata (talk) 03:53, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've reviewed the source and made another attempt to clarify. Apparently they place the markers when they have to show the people where the edges of the park are located during disputes. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 04:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Both temperature and rainfall vary most with location in the park." Sounds inelegant
 * I've attempted to re-word. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "although the bedrock of Marojejy also exhibits a significant amount of gneiss" swap exhibits -> has?
 * Done. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "a type of high-grade metamorphic rock" I don't understand what "high-grade" means here.
 * To be honest with you, it's a geological term that I can't adequately define or find an appropriate link for. Unfortunately, this is all the source says.  I'm open for suggestions from anyone who's versed in geology. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've linked "high-grade", and that may be the best I can do. There used to be an article about ore grade, but it looks like it got merged into Ore by dumping the basic info in the lead.  Either way, the definition is still not perfectly clear to me, although I can see that it has something to do with mineral concentration.  If this isn't good enough, let me know and I'll post the question for WikiProject Mining.  However, they don't look terribly active. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 04:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "High-grade" means it has undergone significant amounts of metamorphism: it has been at high temperature and pressures for long enough to change quite a lot from its original sedimentary state. Eg. slate is low-grade, schist can be high-grade, but they both start as muds formed into shales. Iridia (talk) 07:13, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the explanation! In your opinion, is the article worded well enough, and is the link adequate?  If not, I would appreciate your suggestions.  I'm having a hard time thinking of a way to summarize this information in a way that doesn't disrupt the flow of the article's text. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 22:04, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * "…the rock at the base of the ancient mountain melted completely and eventually recrystallizing as granite, an igneous rock." recrystallizing -> recrystallized?
 * Done. –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "The soil pH is expected to be acidic to neutral." Why just expected to be? Has no-one tested it? Also, link to the more specific soil pH.
 * This is what the source said, and it's the only source that mentions soil pH. Otherwise, I've corrected the link. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review up to this point! –  VisionHolder « talk » 06:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "The microclimates also affect plant growth rates, with the wet eastern slopes showing faster growth, the dry western slopes exhibiting slower growth, and the ridge tops hindered by high winds and poor soils." The way it's worded, it sounds like the slopes themselves have differential growth rates, rather than the plants that grow on them.
 * Fixed, I think. –  VisionHolder « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I doubt that "species" needs to be linked, but if you think it does, it should occur earlier. I would think that "families" in the next sentence is equally or more worthy of a link.
 * Done. –  VisionHolder « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * link ground cover
 * Done. –  VisionHolder « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "This region covers 38% of the surface area of the park." I'm not sure what "this region" refers to… is it the plant families in the ground cover mentioned in the last sentence, or lowland rainforest in general?
 * Specified. –  VisionHolder « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Of the many plant species found around Marojejy …" around -> in?
 * I think either is fine, but I changed to "in". –  VisionHolder « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * How do you feel about bulling citations to avoid having to give penta- and quad-cites?
 * Do you mean "culling"? In this case, I don't see a problem with the two instances I noticed. Let me know if I missed any. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, that musta' been the auto spell-correction on my text editor "helpfully" correcting my typo. I meant "bundling", not "culling", but it seems that verb worked too, because I don't see them anymore :) Sasata (talk) 03:53, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Support—Nicely illustrated, well-written and researched. I'm officially adding the park to my list of "Places to pick mushrooms before I die". I found a few minor nitpicks when I read through the article again, but I'm sure you'll deal with them quickly. Sasata (talk) 20:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "… although an old nest and traces of its feeding have been found at various elevations." Only one old nest has been found? At various elevations? Or should that be "nests"?
 * Only one, so I specified the number. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Nearly half a century later, another wave of refugees settled in the area, this time fleeing French colonists." Unclear: were the settlers running away from French colonists, or were they French colonists that were running away?
 * It was "from"—now clarified. –  VisionHolder « talk » 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The latter half of the second paragraph of "Topography and habitat" has three noticeable "result"s in close proximity.
 * Fixed, I think. –  VisionHolder « talk » 21:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * seems there's a mix of title case and sentence in the articles listed in "Literature cited"
 * I think I've fixed everything. I made sure books were in title case, and journals were (mostly) in sentence case.  Patel (2009) was an exception because the title consisted of a formal list: "Primates in Peril: The World's 25 Most Endangered Primates" –  VisionHolder  « talk » 21:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Patel (2009) needs et al. italicized, and there's a double fullstop.
 * The et al. issue is a problem with the core citation template. I posted the problem here, but I'm not sure if anyone has plans to fix it.  Also, it looks like the double fullstop is also a problem with the template.  I'll try posting this stuff at Template talk:Citation/core. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 21:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Disambig/External Link check - no dabs or dead external links. -- Pres N  00:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Image review Otherwise images seem fine, although a few are OTRS pending. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:46, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Captions should be grammatically correct ("Map of the Madagascar"? "The Madagascar Paradise-flycatcher one of many species of bird found at Marojejy"?)
 * Thanks for the catch. I don't know how I missed these. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 17:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Which of the three peaks is Marojejy Massif?
 * Are you referring to this photo? From what I understand, they are three mountain peaks viewable from the summit.  The massif is actually a range of mountains, and the summit is the highest point.  Once I receive a reply from the person who uploaded the image, I will try to clarify.  If you can think of a better caption for this summit view, please share it. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 17:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "View of the surrounding mountains from the 2132-metre-high summit of Marojejy Massif"? Nikkimaria (talk) 16:34, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Good enough! Caption has been updated. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 03:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit concerned about the video - AGF that the uploader has the rights to the video footage itself, but the background music also has to be considered. Any information on its copyright status?
 * To be honest, the uploader sent the file to me first and asked me to upload, but when I asked the same questions you just asked, he didn't reply and proceeded to upload and post the video himself. I have tried since to get clarification with no luck.  Since the FA status of the article is very important to him, I will stress upon him one more time the importance of answering those questions truthfully.  If he is the owner of the video, I will strip out the audio. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 17:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have removed the audio track and hidden the video code for now. The uploader is contacting his coworkers at the WWF for permission.  I will post back when we know more.  Otherwise, how do I get rid of the message "Error: title key: Marojejy.ogv not found" when the video finishes playing? –  VisionHolder  « talk » 20:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't know - maybe ask at WP:VP/T?
 * I apologize for the OTRS pending photos. The contributor had previously shared some optional photos with me, but had not given a license.  He then went out of the country, and I have been waiting to add the material for weeks.  I just got the release last night.  Fortunately, OTRS seems to be getting caught up recently, so hopefully it won't take long to process.  If anyone needs proof of the license, email me and I will forward the release for your review. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 17:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, everything looks okay now. Good luck! Nikkimaria (talk) 16:34, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Why are some "Literature cited" references indented, and out of order? it looks exceedingly strange! – Peacock.Lane 13:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This is something I've been doing on a lot of my FAs, namely when I'm dealing with books made up of articles. If I do regular citations, the full book citation gets repeated over and over every time I list a source from the book.  In some cases, there can be dozens of repetitions—see Lemur for one example.  One of the refs in the article can be consolidated because I had thought I would use more material from the book, but only used one chapter. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 15:33, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFF. If you want to make up your own psychedelic, idiosyncratic method, there's little in WP:WIAFA that can prevent you from inflicting it upon the greater public. You should be aware, however, that ever single person in the universe who has ever published anything in any academic journal in any field will look at that reference section and think, "What a bunch of crap!" If that's the way you want to treat Wikipedia, then as far as I know, no one can stop you. – Peacock.Lane 04:15, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFF doesn't apply since this is an identical issue that has been discussed at other FACs and has been allow to pass. We don't need to be making special cases for one article, but excluding others with the same issue.  I would gladly explain my reason for developing this system and my justification for it, but I will only do so if you can take a civil tone.  Otherwise, I am done discussing this. –  VisionHolder  « talk » 07:25, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's one person who has published in an academic journal and doesn't think that. Please refrain from hyperbole; I'm sure VH will be willing to have a civil discussion on the best way to handle these references. Ucucha 18:24, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Support — this is a fascinating article. The prose is superb (with one or two exceptions) and is engaging and professional throughout. The images are wonderful. I have three nit-picks: the "in order" as in "in order to" is redundant, I had to Google "delimited by approximation" and why is the soil pH "expected to be..."? Thanks for the virtual tour, it was a joy. Graham Colm (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review. "In order" has been removed in all 3 instances, and I've attempted to clarify "delimited by approximation."  As for the soil pH, I can only go by what the source says.  It did not go into detail, nor did any other source discuss the topic.  I wish I could offer more, but there is nothing else available.  –  VisionHolder  « talk » 16:11, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, thanks again. Graham Colm (talk) 16:17, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.