Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Martha Layne Collins/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 16:35, 25 January 2012.

Martha Layne Collins

 * Nominator(s): Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Second nomination. The first nomination garnered only a source review; no supports or opposes. :( Permission to re-list early was given by.

The article covers the life of Kentucky's first (and to date, only) female governor. It passed a GA review on April 8, 2010, but has not undergone a peer review. Collins was the seventh female governor in U.S. history and the third who was not the wife or widow of a past governor. She got some consideration as the Democratic VP candidate from Walter Mondale before Mondale chose Geraldine Ferraro. I'm hoping to get an FA pass in time for this article to be considered for TFA on International Women's Day (March 8), or at least sometime during Women's History Month in the U.S. (March). Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments; This is surely worth reading by the politics brigade, and I hope they will arrive soon. I have a few general points, mainly prose nitpicks, arising from the lead. I haven't read much beyond the lead, but I question the value of the "Ancestors" table. Since none of these forebears was in any way notable, this is really just a list of 30 unknown names. It's not worth keeping. Otherwise the article looks pretty good, and it would make a good TFA for 8 March. I will see if I can drum up some interest among the recluctant political classes; there are a few about. Brianboulton (talk) 17:06, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It should be explicitly stated in the first paragraph that she was a Democrat, also that Mondale–Ferraro was the Democratic presidential ticket in 1984. (You have to remember that, outside the US, few have heard of these people).
 * Point well taken. Done.
 * "She was Kentucky's first and only female governor to date." If she is the "only", it follows that she was the first female governor, so I'd amend this to: "To date, she is Kentucky's only female governor".
 * Indeed. Done.
 * "At the time of her election, she was the seventh woman to serve as governor of any state, and the third who was not the wife or widow of a past governor." Not really headline paragraph material. I would incorporate this, and its citation, into the article.
 * I kinda thought it was significant, but I've replaced it with the fact of her being the highest-ranking female Democrat by virtue of her election.
 * In the UK, "schoolteacher" is considered one word. Maybe AmEng is different?
 * I think so. I always thought it was two words.
 * If becoming the state party's secretary and clerk to the appeals court both happened in 1975 I suggest you rejig the sentence: "In 1975 she was chosen secretary of the state Democratic Party, and was elected clerk of the Kentucky Court of Appeals".
 * Done.
 * "Her major accomplishment as governor was..." I am slightly troubled by the POV aspect of this phrasing. Possible neutral rephrase: "She successfully used economic incentives..." etc
 * I guess it could be seen as POV, although I doubt anybody would really debate it. The plant is still having a major economic impact on the state to this day. Changed.
 * I gather that she was constitutionally prevented from seeking reelection. This should be noted in the lead, rather than just "After her term as governor..." which gives no indication of why she left office.
 * Yep. I miss this nearly every time in governor articles. Done.
 * The ancestors section has come up in other governor FACs. It is a project that has been working on for the Kentucky Historical Society. While I don't know how much use it is to the average reader, I don't see much harm in it either, since it's collapsed by default. Such sections are common in the articles of monarchs and some other leaders, from what I gather. Plus, some people who are really interested in genealogy could be persuaded to edit the article if they determine they are or might be related to the subject. That's how I ended up taking Archibald Dixon to GA status, although I never did determine that I was related to him.
 * Appreciate you recruiting some other reviewers. Waiting a month just to get an article failed because nobody bothered to read it is frustrating. I posted a notice at the Women's History WikiProject, but so far, no help. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've asked Wehwalt to take a look and he says he will when he can, "perhaps Monday". Brianboulton (talk) 11:23, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. He's a good reviewer. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Sources review: The sources all look reliable. I have not spotchecked. Is there a reason why Ref 50 should not be combined with Ref. 48, since they both seem to refer to the same newspaper article? In any event, Ref 50 is not standard for the format you are using. Brianboulton (talk) 13:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I changed reference formatting between the article's GA review and its FAC nomination. Just failed to get that one changed over. Fixed now. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Leaning to support: I have re-read the article, made a few late copyedits and looked at the points raised in Wehwalt's long review. I think the article is close now. However, I still have problems with the "Later life" section. First, this title is normally used when the subject is dead; as this is a BLP I feel a more general title should be used, such as "After office".
 * Changed to "Activities after leaving office". Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * More seriously, I think this section needs a proper lead-in before the clumsy "term limited" link. You don't say when she left office, which is necessary information. I recommend something like this: "Collins' term as governor expired on (date).  Limited to one term by the Kentucky Constitution,  Collins accepted a position from..." etc.
 * Reworded. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Another problem for me is the statement that "the first president of the small, Catholic college who was not a Dominican nun." Was even a Catholic?
 * If she was the first non-Dominican nun, doesn't it follow that she was the first non-Catholic? In the Early life section, I mentioned that Collins was a Baptist. Not sure what else needs to be said here. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not been mentioned, so what is the story behind this singularly unusual appointment?
 * The article says she was sought out because she would raise the college's profile. Basically, they thought hiring a former governor would really "put them on the map". Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Assuming nothing untoward arises from any further review, I shall be ready to support when my outstanding concerns are addressed. NB I would take note of what Sandy says about tidying up the page. Brianboulton (talk) 22:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, again, Brian. I assume Sandy is saying I should sign my response to each concern. I thought that would clutter the page, but I've done it here, just in case. Hope you don't mind that I bulleted your concerns to make them easier to respond to individually. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Image review
 * Captions that are complete sentences should end in periods
 * Done.
 * Any possibility of a better-quality photo for the lead? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:14, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I wish, but given that she's still alive (precluding a fair use picture), this is probably the best we can do short of someone tracking her down in Georgetown. Unfortunately, that's about three hours from me. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 23:51, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Wehwalt: OK, here goes.
 * Lede
 * "From 1983 to 1987, she was the 56th Governor of Kentucky, having served the previous four years as the 48th Lieutenant Governor. " The first half of this should be in the first sentence; it is undoubtedly Collins' claim to fame, such as it is.  The second half can stand on its own perhaps preceded with a "Before becoming governor" ...
 * Done.
 * "To date" I would delete this; I see no loss in doing so. It would still say the same thing.
 * Done.
 * I would split the second paragraph at the election for lt governor. It seems a natural break and the paragraph is too long.
 * Agree that the paragraph is too long, but some reviewers seem to get fussy when there are more than three paragraphs in the lede. Done anyway, per your suggestion.
 * "of her term." Consider "of their joint term"
 * Wouldn't technically be accurate. Believe it or not, the governor and lieutenant governor of Kentucky weren't actually elected as a ticket until the passage of a constitutional amendment in 1992.
 * They served identical terms in time though. Can you come up with an alternative?
 * What about just truncating it after "500 days"?
 * The description of her time as governor seems rather overdetailed. For example, the sentence about how the court challenge to a program was overruled by the Ky Sup Ct seems unnecessary
 * I've trimmed it a bit, but the court challenge to the incentives package was a big deal. If the court had struck them down, the state would have lost untold millions, because Toyota would have located the plant elsewhere.
 * Then say that.
 * Done.
 * " public criticism of the package was blunted as Toyota continued to invest heavily in Kentucky" I would make this its own sentence, but it is a little bit unclear unless you say what the criticism was.
 * True, it probably doesn't belong in the lede.
 * "Constitutionally prohibited from seeking re-election," This presumes she would have, and also he words "constitutionally prohibited" sound a little harsh.  Can not this phrase be avoided by an earlier reference that Kentucky does not allow a governor to be re-elected?
 * It is always difficult to work this in, because that term limit was eased in 1992. I've re-worded to something that is hopefully less harsh.
 * "for future political endeavors." Perhaps "for a return to political life"?
 * Suits me.
 * Early life
 * "matriculated to" enrolled in.  Definitely.
 * Man, no love for "matriculated". OK, you win. :)
 * "female" you use this term repeatedly. I would replace with "woman" or the very close equivalent (girl is OK if under 18 at the time) .  If you feel there is some place where it absolutely must go, discuss.
 * Wasn't sure what is most politically-correct these days. Is it OK to use a noun as an adjective, as in "woman governor"? Also, if "girl" is only for those under 18, do we call Lindenwood an "all-girls college", an "all-woman college", or something else? It could have both girls (under 18) and women (over 18).
 * Woman is always the safest term. I would call it an all-woman college or similar.  You don't want side issues.
 * Done.
 * I would mention what city the University of Kentucky is in.
 * Done.
 * In the next sentence, please specify in some way that her activities at the University of Kentucky are meant. The insertion of the word "there" in an appropriate place would do it.
 * Wasn't sure if "while there" sounded awkward or not. Done.
 * It may not be clear to the reader the University of Kentucky and Georgetown College are close together or far apart.
 * I've added the approximate distance per Google Maps.
 * I'm not clear why "Louisville" is not linked.
 * Just an oversight. Fixed.
 * " Jaycees and Jayceettes and the Young Democratic Couples Club.[4] Through the latter organization," This is a very odd sequence.  Your use of the term latter with respect to the club, and the single link, suggests that the Jaycees and Jayceettes are one organization.  I was going to call that to your attention.  Then I saw in the next section, you refer to the Jayceetes alone, which leads me to believe they are two organizations.  Please clear this up.
 * Not entirely sure myself. It was through the Young Democratic Couples that they worked on Ward's campaign. It seems, from what I can tell, that the Jaycees and Jayceettes are part of the same organization, but the Jaycees is the branch for men and the Jayceettes is the branch for women. Not sure how best to address that.
 * would simply avoid the term "latter" and settle for "club", which uniquely identifies it and doesn't raise side issues.
 * OK. Done.
 * More later.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:53, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to give this some attention, Wehwalt. I know you've been otherwise occupied of late. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * At least it's a distraction :) --Wehwalt (talk) 18:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Resuming:
 * Early political career
 * " he named her Democratic National Committeewoman from Kentucky." I would be surprised if the appointment process was this simple, but perhaps it is The governor picks?  At the least explain why the co-chair for Ford's campaign for one of Kentucky's congressional districts was the obvious candidate for committeewoman.  Something as simple as saying Ford (who is a cipher to us) was impressed by Collins, or similar.
 * The source does make it sound as simple as "the governor picks", and Kentucky governors do enjoy very broad appointment powers under the state constitution, although I doubt party leadership is covered by that document. I've added a quote from the state Democratic chairman at the time that speaks to Collins' effectiveness as district co-chair, but I haven't found anything that directly speaks to Ford's reasoning for naming her committeewoman.
 * "and as a delegate to the 1972 Democratic National Convention." Surely this was by virtue of her office? And was she pledged to a candidate?
 * Probably, although I can't directly confirm that. And none of the sources mention who she might have been pledged to.
 * "renamed the Court of Appeals to the Kentucky Supreme Court;" I am gathering that the amendment did more than rename the court, it expanded its jurisdiction.  Suggest a rephrase.
 * How about "reconstituted" instead of renamed? Seems like I ran across that somewhere, but I can't find it now.
 * "by a vote of 543,176 to 316,798" Delete "a vote of".  Really, percentages work best for this sort of thing, but your call.  Can anything be said about her campaign?
 * Deleted "by a vote of". I hesitate to use percentages because I'm not sure if there was a minor-party or third-party candidate in the race, and the details about the actual race are few. This goes back before the Newsbank articles for the Lexington Herald-Leader start, which makes it difficult. I can say that, in Kentucky, especially at that time, the custom was, unless there is a major problem for the Democratic candidate, he or she won almost by default. Contemporary sources don't mention the campaign as far as I can tell, so any issues raised don't seem to have had a lasting impact.
 * " in the absence of" I think "in place of" might be good.  Can Brown's party be mentioned?
 * Done and done.
 * "all 120 counties in Kentucky." "all of Kentucky's 120 counties".  "Claimed" is a word generally not favored as it implies considerable doubt.  Consider a substitute.
 * See how it reads now.
 * " She drew praise from members of both parties, who declared that she presided impartially and with respect for parliamentary procedure." Perhaps "Members of both major parties praised Collins for her impartiality and knowledge of parliamentary procedure in presiding over the Senate".  If the source will justify "knowledge", although it's effectively the same thing here as apparently she displayed her knowledge.
 * Done.
 * "multi-county banking" Perhaps "branch banking across county lines.
 * Sure. I don't actually know what "multi-county banking" means; I used that because it is what the source says.
 * That's what it means.
 * Senate should be capitalized at all times. It is a specific body.
 * Wasn't sure what the rule was on that. Done.

Resuming:
 * 1983 gubernatorial election: I would avoid unnecessarily beginning with a number, consider "Election of 1983"  I think the reader will know what is meant.
 * Changed to "Gubernatorial election of 1983".
 * "As she neared the expiration of her term as lieutenant governor, Collins announced her candidacy in the 1983 gubernatorial race" a bit clunky.  Perhaps "Nearing the end of her term as lieutenant governor, on (I would put in a date if you can), Collins announced her intent to run for governor in 1983."
 * I've taken the rephrase, but don't have a date, unfortunately. Newsbank picks up in 1983.
 * " Democratic party" capitalize
 * Done.
 * " late in the race," "shortly before the primary election". Is there a reason why you avoid the word "primary" in this paragraph?  Odd.
 * Changed. Any aversion to using "primary" was not intentional.
 * "saying". Say is a word you avoid as informal sounding.  Perhaps "alleging"?  And for "governorship", I would say "governor's office".  Adding "ship" to an office like that is a declining practice.
 * How about "charging"? I wasn't aware that "governorship" was no longer en vogue; I use it often in these Kentucky governor articles.
 * It is less common than it was. Certainly less common than in the early 20th century "Secretaryship of State".
 * " a common practice that Brown shunned" suggest "then a common practice, though one that Brown shunned"
 * I have re-phrased. Brown was really a maverick for shunning this practice. It really defined the early part of his term.
 * "Sloane asked for a recanvass of the ballots" perhaps "Sloane asked for a recount". I think it understood what a recount counts.  Also, omit "to Collins" as redundant.
 * Deleted "to Collins". I am hesitant to change "recanvass", as the newspaper articles from that time use it exclusively instead of "recount". I wonder if there is some subtle difference between the two.
 * Best to let it go then.
 * "Jim Bunning". I would add "and former baseball player" to his resume.
 * If we're going to do that, might as well mention that he's a Hall of Famer. Done.
 * " the only two women in the U.S. Senate were Republicans, and Collins was the only woman governor." You should probably have an "at that time" somewhere in there, but my greater concern is that in this and the next paragraph you are jumping back and forth to events that happened after her inauguration.  I suggest you reorder to assure a smoother flow.  I would suggest that you reserve the talk of Collins' high rank among elected women, and her political prospects, until you have her safely inaugurated.  In fact, the controversy about her husband might be a good way of starting the next section.  So start the "Governor" section with the controversies, then the existing first paragraph, and then somewhere later on, the rank and prospects.
 * What about moving a slightly-reworded paragraph about her rank among woman Democrats just before the paragraph discussing her activities at the 1984 DNC? I know this gets things out of order again by putting the controversy with her husband and the entire 1984 legislative session prior to her appearance on GMA, but it does provide a nice segue into her being chosen as convention chair and possible VP candidate.
 * That's fine.
 * Done. Might want to re-read this section to make sure I didn't mess anything up. I gave the discussion of her VP consideration its own subheading, which I thought it needed to begin with, but it was too short until I brought in the paragraph from earlier in the article.
 * Since you seem to be quick about responses, I'll keep feeding you sections as I complete them. Interesting read.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Glad you are enjoying it. Hope to address these pretty quickly, but I just got over a three-day bout with a stomach virus, and now I think my wife has it. Go ahead and do the section-by-section reviews if you want; I'll get to them ASAP. Thanks again. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the viruses, hope you are feeling better
 * Governor
 * From the prior section. You say she was the only woman to be elected Kentucky governor.  I suggest nailing it down and saying she is the only woman to have served in that capacity.
 * Added to the previous section, pending the paragraph move mentioned earlier.
 * Was she inaugurated on a certain date? Did she say anything notable then?
 * As best I can tell, the date was December 13, 1983. It's constitutionally-mandated for the fifth Tuesday after the election, so we can probably double-check that. Sadly, the article I found went into intricate detail about her dress, but never even mentioned an inaugural speech!
 * " extending the sales tax to cover services such as auto repair and dry cleaning, and increasing the corporate licensing tax from 70 cents per $1,000 of a company's combined stock value and long-term debt to $1.75 per $1,000" Suggest shortening to eliminate the specific details.
 * Is it sufficient to say "extending the sales tax to cover services such as auto repair and dry cleaning, and increasing the corporate licensing tax" then?
 * "flat five percent income tax" personal or corporate?
 * Personal. Specified.
 * It strikes me that the blow-by-blow details of a proposal which was not enacted are probably too much.
 * Could be. I was trying to show how hard she tried to get the proposal through, but it may be too much. I'm still learning to write an article from a series of newspaper articles; I prefer to write from summaries written after the fact.
 * "lower grades" Unless you intended a pun or ambiguity here, suggest eliminating and just describe the kids as "elementary school children" or similar.
 * No pun intended. Changed.
 * "Among the other accomplishments of the 1984 legislative session " Were these Collins' accomplishments, or the legislature's?  Suggest a brief insertion of Collins' name be tossed in appropriately.
 * The legislature's. Just wanted to show what else they spent their time doing.
 * "chairperson" suggest "chair" or recast and say "to preside over". Also Rosalind Wiener Wyman's article says she was chair.  Can you clear up?  And also say who appointed her.  The DNC?  Mondale?
 * Done. Also, the Wyman article is in error; according to the four mentions I found of her in Newsbank, she chaired the convention committee, not the convention. Basically, she organized the logistics of the convention, as best I can tell.
 * the tokenism discussion is confusing. Whether or not putting Ferraro on the ticket was tokenism, how does interviewing other Democratic possibilities that are women and minorities make it less so?
 * I'm not actually sure, either. The exact quote from the source is "At least two prospects interviewed by Mondale - Philadelphia's Mayor Goode and Kentucky Gov. Martha Layne Collins - never received serious consideration. They were on the list primarily for cosmetic purposes, to fill out Mondale's dance card so that he would not be accused of tokenism in looking at the other women and blacks - Ferraro, Feinstein and Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley." It does not elaborate.
 * That makes sense. He was obviously looking at high-ranking women and blacks.
 * " She replaced Ray Nystrand, whose leave of absence from his previous position at the University of Louisville School of Education had expired." Suggest omitting entirely.  Without knowing anything about Nystrand, this really doesn't tell the reader anything.
 * Done.
 * "every Kentucky county" I don't think you need "Kentucky" here, but if you are minded to retain it, suggest "every county in the state" as better.  The reader will get it.
 * Done.
 * "reform" This is a loaded word because of its strong positive connotations, use as little as possible as POV.  In this passage, you use it four times in three sentences!  "Proposals" is the obvious alternative.
 * Done.
 * "Also included on the special session agenda were the issues of raising revenue for the state's road fund, approving the construction of a new medium-security prison, and increasing money for child protective services." I would omit as too much detail, similarly the enactment of two of the programs.  I would keep the Assembly's refusal to raise taxes, though, adding on perhaps "to pay for other spending"
 * Done.
 * "Legislators approved a constitutional amendment" somewhere in this passage, I'd toss in the word "referendum"
 * Done.
 * "state superintendent" I would make it clear that you are talking about education, given that you just talked about "vocational education" and it may be confusing to the reader what he superintends.
 * Done.
 * "Between 1985 and 1990, enrollment in Kentucky's colleges and universities climbed 30 percent" Ah, several problems here.  First, why?  Second, this is the first hint you've given that Collins' education proposals had any impact on anything but primary education.
 * It might be best to omit this. I ran across this fact and was thinking it spoke to the effectiveness of her proposals, but in hindsight, you are right; her proposals primarily focused on primary education, and even if there were some higher education components (and I vaguely remember that there were), they cannot be directly connected to this fact. Deleted.
 * Why would the opposition of the candidate to succeed Collins impact an ongoing proposal? Possibly it could be enacted before Collins left office?  I would also describe Wallace as the Democratic candidate to succeed Collins, btw.
 * Kentucky's legislative sessions, at that time, were biennial, so there was no session in 1987. It was probably proposed in late 1987 in preparation for the 1988 session. Wilkinson, however, would have been governor by that time.
 * "to discuss opening" This begs for a follow up on how successful she was regarding China.  That would be less urgent if you use the word "encourage" instead.
 * Changed to "encourage". The point was to mention that Collins was the first Kentucky governor to visit China.
 * "incentive[s]" Please find synonyms, you use this word jarringly often.
 * Done.
 * "1600-acre plot" Use the convert template, please, and I would set it to hectares, otherwise it will give you square kilometres.  And that's too large for a plot, suggest "tract".
 * Done, but check it. I don't use that template often.
 * Didn't other states also want it? Mentioning that sets up a sense of urgency about the matter.  And can't we have an image of the factory?  Either here or in the legacy section.  With the exception of portrait shots, this article is remarkably poor on images.  Surely cameras work in Kentucky? When you come right down to it, this was probably what Collins was best known to, other than second prize in the Mondale beauty pageant.
 * Added a list of other reported finalists. WRT the picture, I unfortunately live about 3 hours away, so I can't readily take one. I asked for one on the talk page for WikiProject Kentucky, but I haven't gotten any response yet.
 * Was passage through the legislature controversial? Did Collins have to push for it?  See my previous comment about Collins being best known for this.
 * I didn't find any indication that it was particularly controversial in the legislature, although it did have its detractors in the public, as detailed.
 * " the cost overruns associated with preparing the site for construction" And the other cost overruns?  There's a disconnect here.
 * Yeah, I think the state was left holding the bag on those, but the report didn't say.
 * " state's friendly suit." I suggest "the test case", and perhaps add something about how the joinder converted the test case into something less friendly.  "Friendly suit" is not a common term, and I speak as a lawyer who has written on politics.  Last time I saw it was in something around 1900.
 * Wow, I'll defer to your expertise then. I think that was the term used in the source.
 * "Criticism of the incentives was blunted when Toyota set up several assembly plants across the state; near the end of Collins' term, the state Commerce Cabinet reported that 25 automotive-related manufacturing plants had been constructed in 17 Kentucky counties since the Toyota announcement" OK, but all this construction must have been going on while the case was moving forward.  And again, is it really necessary to say "Kentucky counties"?  Just use "state" somewhere in there and there will be no risk of ambiguity.
 * Not sure what fix you are looking for in terms of chronology. Basically, the public criticism died down as the related plants opened, but the lawsuits continued. Obviously, those folks continued to oppose it even after the unfavorable court ruling, but they were in the vast minority.
 * "Other matters of Collins' term" This title is awkward.
 * Do you have another suggestion?
 * Not really.
 * Given that the first paragraph deals with automotive matters, can it be moved into the previous subsection? It seems similar in theme with the Commerce Council announcement.  Again, "claimed" carries with it disbelief, which I assume you do not mean.
 * Even though it doesn't deal directly with Toyota, I guess it could.
 * "economic development plan, which included both national and international components." I imagine this means that Collins tried to attract both US and foreign firms to Kentucky; if so, say so.
 * Done.
 * "Collins called a second special session " Omit "second", as the first one was not related to this, you'd possibly confuse the issue.  I'd toss in a "of the legislature" while you are about it.
 * Done.
 * "Special Fund". The lower case words convince me you haven't given the formal title of the fund, and if you intend to refer to it as a "Special Fund", with caps, I would first give the formal title.
 * I couldn't find a formal title; "Special Fund" sounded weird to me, especially in caps, but I'm pretty sure that's how the sources do it.
 * "Greg Stumbo". If there is a close relationship to Grady, I would mention it.
 * I found a mention of them being cousins, but I'm not sure how close.
 * Let it go, then.
 * "had threatened to sue Collins if her call did not provide the ability to amend any plan that was submitted to address the deficit" The reader may find this passage somewhat confusing.  Is it really relevant, though?  Consider omitting.
 * I thought the threat of a lawsuit made it somewhat relevant, and Stumbo went on to be Attorney General, where he basically ruined the career of Governor Ernie Fletcher, so there was that link to someone notable. However, reading this again, the average reader needs to understand, as I do, that the governor sets the agenda for a special session and nothing else can be considered except what is on that agenda. Collins could have said that only O'Daniel's plan could be considered, which is the condition under which Stumbo would have sued. Ultimately, if all that has to be explained, you're probably right; it isn't worth it. Deleted.
 * O'Daniel's party may be of relevance.
 * Done.
 * Plans don't do anything, legislation does. "called for" is a useful phrase :)
 * Rephrased to avoid both. I'm not much of a fan of "called for" either.
 * The opposition of the coal county legislators may be clearer if you mention that benefits were not increased. (that is, if they were not).
 * Was it not clear from the first sentence that the Special Fund was already operating at a deficit? Since the point of the session was to address the deficit, I thought it went without saying that benefits wouldn't increase because that would increase the deficit.
 * Not that obvious. And politicians have been known to increase deficits.
 * OK, tried to make it more explicit.
 * "Collins served as chair of the Tennessee–Tombigbee Waterway Authority" You should probably throw a "As governor" in at the start.  Does Kentucky's governor often serve as chair?  If it is ex officio, I would say so.
 * Actually, I have no idea what this authority is, what the chair does, how she got the job, or anything about it. The last paragraph was basically a place where I threw in various honors that seemed notable, but for which I could provide no context.
 * Later life
 * "Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University" Not worth this many words. If you are going to mention where he was going at all, just say "Virginia Tech".  It has become well-known, in recent years.
 * Wasn't sure it was acceptable to use this designation, especially with an international audience that might not be familiar with the short name. Done.
 * "academe". "academia".
 * Done.
 * "She was the first president of the small, Catholic college who was not a Dominican nun" Easily combinable with preceding sentence.
 * Done.
 * "In 1993, Collins' husband, Bill," This whole paragraph is a bit problematical as you never actually state what he was charged with or convicted of, other than the allusion to "conspiracy" (to commit ... ).  And was exGov. Collins called by the prosecution or the defense?
 * I was afraid of going too far off-topic here, since the article is not about Dr. Collins. Basically, as I understand it, Dr. Collins started some kind of investment firm, and some investors claimed they felt pressured to invest because they also owned companies that were bidding for state contracts and they felt like their bids would not be competitive unless they invested. Do you think that level of detail is necessary here? Considering that the background takes us back into years already covered by the article (even the investigation preceding the charges lasted several months), how should it be handled chronologically? BTW, I don't know who called Ms. Collins to the stand.
 * I'll defer to your judgement. Generally, these are to call things to your attention.  If you have a valid reason, I defer to the person who knows far more about the subject than I do.
 * "Dr. Collins exploited a perception that he could influence the awarding of state contracts " I would imagine that we are talking about influencing his wife?  You should say.
 * Done.
 * " the minimum penalty for his offense under federal sentencing guidelines." I would say "at the low end of the range prescribed by the federal sentencing guidelines" and pipe to United States Federal Sentencing Guidelines.
 * If the source explicitly says it was the minimum, why should we avoid saying that?
 * I'm saying the same thing, but using the appropriate legal terminology.
 * OK, if that's more correct legally speaking.
 * It would probably be worth mentioning when he was released for prison and if he re-united with his wife. I see no mention of divorce in the infobox.
 * No, they're still together. I found and added his release date. It looks like he got out early, but the article provides no explanation why. Does this raise unnecessary questions?
 * He would probably have had to serve 85 percent of his sentence. It's fine.
 * "promoting and protecting the rights of Japanese nationals in Kentucky," That makes it sound like she did actual consular work, with I doubt.  I would say "promoting Japanese interests in Kentucky".
 * I kinda wondered about that too, but the article did say that was part of the gig. I've adopted your wording for the first item in the series, but I left the other two in place, given her history of working with the Japanese.
 * "CEO" I'm willing to say that "CEO" has entered the language, but I watch a lot of Squawk Box.  I would at least pipe it to the appropriate article.
 * I'll spell it out and pipe it. That was probably too colloquial.
 * " for several companies, including Eastman Kodak." Ah, "of several corporations". And given Kodak's present difficulties, is this really the example you want to give?
 * Changed to "corporations". And although many sources say she was on the boards for several corporations, they don't typically list many of them. Kodak was easily the most visible. Also, I confirmed that this was case relatively recently. No longer serving on a corporation's board of directors doesn't usually make headlines, so I don't want to say she is on someone's board if she no longer is.
 * Agree, junk the ancestry section. Her ancestry plays no role in this article, and she's not royalty.
 * Because this isn't my addition, and because I know worked very hard on this for many Kentucky governors, I'm really reluctant to do that without his consent. Would you please address him about it? I don't find it all that intrusive or problematic myself. It's more useful than the links to Find-A-Grave or The Political Graveyard that usually litter political articles, at least.
 * General comments
 * While a "legacy" section for a living person is problematical, perhaps some words can be said about her impact on Kentucky. I assume the car plants are still open?  I'd also like to see if you can add a few quotes from the lady herself.  There's much talk about what Collins did, but I'd like to have a better sense of her as a person.
 * Yes, the plant is still open. I think the LHL recently ran some articles about the 25th anniversary of the Toyota agreement or something. There might be something in there. I didn't run across any really notable quotes. What did you have in mind?
 * Just a couple of paragraphs on the impact she had on Kentucky. I think it's expected.
 * I'll see if any of those recent articles from the Herald-Leader turns up anything notable.
 * I'll look in, in a day or three and see how you are getting on and do a re-read. Very absorbing, but I'd like to see how the prose looks.  Ping me if needed before then, or if I forget.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:43, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Some responses and requests for clarification given above. Time for the Cats to play now, though. More later. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 17:04, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * More responses left at halftime. :) Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:09, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Finished leaving responses. Some need more input from you to be closed. I seem to be safely over the stomach virus now, so hopefully, I can wrap this up sooner rather than later. Thanks for a very thorough review. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I made a few comments, when you have done with this, I'll take another look through.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:27, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ready for another read-through, unless my LHL search turns up anything. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, will do so today. You might want to move my earlier comments to this FAC's talk page to avoid putting off reviewers with a wall of text.  It's allowed.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Support on prose and comprehensiveness. I have not checked sources or images.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:20, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Note: it has been three weeks, this FAC looks more like a peer review than a FAC page, but because the nomination was closed last time with little review, I am willing to let this one run just a bit longer-- but we need to see some action here, or this is heading for closure. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 16:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, Sandy, especially in the light of conversations elsewhere, but I'd be pleased if you'd treat this nom a bit leniently. It got little attention on its first FAC, and waited five days this time before it got noticed. I have been digging up reviewers to take a look; Ealdgyth says she'll will try in the next 24 hours or so, and I'm on the trail of another. I'm going to read it again myself tonight with a view to a declaration. I really don't think it's far off from being promotable.Brianboulton (talk) 17:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, lenient for that very reason (as I try to be in all similar cases). On another note, almost nothing is signed above, so although I'll probably no longer be a delegate when this nom closes, I feel sorry for the delegate who has to read through this page and try to figure out who is saying what.  Sign your entries please !!  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 17:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Support with a few niggles:


 * Lead:
 * "...leaving Collins as acting governor for more than 500 days of her term." would mean more if we knew how many days total her term was... if it was 2500 days ... well, that's not a lot. Absolute numbers don't help establish context here.
 * Good point. Added the fact that her term was four years. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Early life:
 * "When Martha was in the sixth grade, ..." need to link for the sixth grade - non US people aren't going to grasp that reference.
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Gubernatorial:
 * Was Bunning in the Hall of Fame when he ran? If not - it's "future-hall-of-fame" also - need to note that it's baseball - not everyone is going to realize that.
 * Oh, good point. Looks like he wasn't elected until 1996. Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Overall, read well and seems complete and covers all the bases. I did a light copyedit while I read. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:00, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Support. It looks to be in fine shape. I fixed some small things. -- Laser brain  (talk)  03:13, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your review on short notice and your support! Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Has there been an image review? If not, please ping WT:FAC. ACDixon, have you previously had a spotcheck of sources for close paraphrasing and accurate representation of sources? Is so, pls indicate; if not, please ping WT:FAC for a source check. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 03:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * See below. -- Laser brain  (talk)  03:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Image review
 * File:Martha Layne Collins, governor of Kentucky, Nov 8, 1986.jpg - verified public domain
 * File:Wendell-H-Ford.jpg - verified public domain
 * File:Jim Bunning, official photo portrait, 111th Congress.jpg - verified public domain
 * File:U.S Vice-President Walter Mondale.jpg - verified public domain
 * File:St. Cathrine Chapel.jpg - cc-by-3.0, verified on commons
 * Everything looks fine. -- Laser brain  (talk)  03:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Source spot-check - admittedly I have no access to the bulk of the sources used in the article. However, I checked refs 39 and 49, which are freely available. I found the article text to be sufficiently paraphrased, and the sources provided to support the article text in both cases. -- Laser brain  (talk)  03:30, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking these tasks on, Laser Brain. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Note: I don't believe MOS allows collapsed text (Ancestors). Sandy Georgia (Talk) 16:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.