Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mayabazar/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 22:39, 9 January 2016.

Mayabazar

 * Nominator(s): Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC),, 

This article is about Mayabazar, a 1957 Indian bilingual film known for its performances, music and especially its cinematography by Marcus Bartley. At this juncture, i want to thank my co-nominators and. A special note of thanks to and my copy-editors  and. This is my first FAC attempt and also the first Telugu film related article to be nominated for a FA. Looking forward for constructive comments. Yours sincerely, Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Yashthepunisher

 * Can you add two-three names from the principal cast in the infobox?
 * Done


 * Mayabazar is a 1957 Indian biligual....would be more specific.
 * Done


 * Remove either "few" or "small" from the third sentence in the lead. Since both words nearly mean the same.
 * Done


 * You can add "epic" before Mahabharata in the fourth sentence.
 * Done


 * Budget and BO info should be also in the infobox. Yashthepunisher (talk) 10:27, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Done Added the budget, but we could not find any reliable information about the box office information.


 * "..participated in the development of Mayabazar." It should be participated in the development of the film.
 * Done


 * "In February 2010 acting coach and director..". Needs a comma after 2010.
 * Done


 * "...the reason for which is not known." Replace "not known" with "unknown".
 * Done

I'll post more comments once i'm finished reading it. Yashthepunisher (talk) 13:08, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Author-link Subhash K. Jha at ref 63.
 * Done


 * Akkineni Nagarjuna's comment about remaking the film should be under inverted comma's.
 * It is a translation from the original quote written in Telugu. So, i can't do this.


 * Wikilink The Hindu at ref 5, and delink it at ref 7 and elsewhere.
 * Done


 * Wikilink The Times of India at ref 28 and delink it elsewhere. Yashthepunisher (talk) 13:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Done

Support. I don't have any issues with the article now. All the best :) Yashthepunisher (talk) 14:36, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, ! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 11:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Jaguar

 * "Rama Rao was initially reluctant to play the lead role, but his portrayal of Krishna received acclaim and turned out to be the first of many such performances" - might sound better as Rama Rao was initially reluctant to play the lead role, however his portrayal of Krishna received acclaim and resulted to be the first of many such performances
 * Done


 * "The soundtrack features 12 songs" - twelve (I know smaller numbers are usually written out in prose, but for me 'twelve' seems the limit)
 * Done


 * "Telugu lyrics were written by Pingali Nagendrarao (Telugu)" - why is Telugu in brackets?
 * Done Removed.


 * "The film is considered a landmark in Telugu and Tamil cinema" - The film is considered a landmark in both Telugu and Tamil cinema
 * Done


 * "with praise for its lead cast, and for its technical aspects" - I would cut "for" here
 * Done Removed.


 * "The updated version was released on 30 January 2010 in 45 theatres in Andhra Pradesh" - link Andhra Pradesh for accessibility
 * Done Linked.


 * "It was a commercial success with mostly positive reviews, one only expressing a preference for the original" - need a conjunction; It was a commercial success with mostly positive reviews, with one only expressing a preference for the original
 * Done Added.


 * I respectfully disagree with User:Jaguar on this. (a) It's not good writing style to have two "with" prepositional phrases one right after the other, and (b) the phrase following "reviews" is an appositive noun phrase followed by a participial phrase. "One only" could be changed to "only one" or "only one of them". Corinne (talk) 19:51, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with this upon looking at it again. Pavan, would you like to change this? JAG  UAR   13:10, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Done Changed. Thanks !


 * "Gummadi Venkateswara Rao and Mikkilineni Radhakrishna Murthy were cast as Balarama and Karna, respectively, in the Telugu version and Sita had a supporting role as Sasirekha's maid" - this may read smoother as In the Tegulu version, Gummadi Venkateswara Rao and Mikkilineni Radhakrishna Murthy were cast as Balarama and Karna, respectively, whilst Sita had a supporting role as Sasirekha's maid
 * Done


 * "Bartley then created an illusion of moonlight, which according to Ambu Rao was a first for an Indian film" - needs a comma between "Rao" and "was"
 * Done Added.


 * I respectfully disagree with User:Jaguar that a comma is needed after "Rao". "According to" is a two-word preposition. It either requires two commas or no commas: "which, according to Ambu Rao, was..." or "which according to Ambu Rao was...". Prepositions do not always require commas. Commas represent where a native speaker would pause. Here, a native speaker is unlikely to pause. Corinne (talk) 19:51, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with this upon looking at it again. Pavan, would you like to change this? JAG  UAR   13:10, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Done Changed. Thanks Corinne!


 * "A commercial success, Mayabazar had a theatrical run of 100 days in 24 theatres and went on to become a silver-jubilee film" - silver jubilee should be linked here
 * Done Linked.


 * "According to a 29 January 2010 government order, the remastered version was exempt from entertainment tax, but theatre owners charged full price" - however
 * Done


 * "However, the foundation opposed digital colourisation, saying that they "believe in the original repair as the way the master or the creator had seen it" - stating
 * Done


 * "Words and phrases, such as "antha alamalame kada"..." - I think this might sound slightly better as Various words and phrases
 * Done Added.

I remember copyediting this article and watching the film shortly after, in which I loved. The article is solid throughout and I could only find a handful of minor prose issues. Good work with this so far! JAG UAR   11:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments ! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 11:49, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Upon reading through this again, I'm satisfied that it meets the FA criteria and I'll now give my support to this article. Good work on this! I think I'll watch Mayabazar again soon. JAG  UAR   13:10, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, ! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 13:29, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Dr. Blofeld
"laddoo gobbling"? Why is the article spelt "Laddu" then? I think it would be best to paraphrase and something in brackets for non Indian readers on what Laddoo actually is.♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:44, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Because The Hindu "Blast from the past" article mentions it in the same way. We linked it to "Laddu" back then. Now, i have added a note for the same. Would that suffice?

The music section seems undercooked, usually the opposite is the case! I'd expect to see the track listing and a bit more even in the main article I think.However in seeing the length of the track list it would bloat it to agree best not to list. I think you need to mention more songs and some form of reception on the most popular ones though.
 * I've added critical reception from "Blast from the past" and Dhananjayan's book. I've also added a few facts regarding the soundtrack's development from the main article. Would these suffice?

Critical reception is also undercooked, also usually the opposite! I think it could use some stronger reviews and a more solid structure.♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:47, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Currently, we have very limited reliable sources in the case of Mayabazar. I could find three reviews, one from CNN-IBN's 100 great films list, two from books published in 2013 and 2015. And now i hope that the section meets your expectations.

"colored" -I thought we used Indian/British English for Indian films?♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:04, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Done Rephrased. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 14:02, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Leaning towards support on comprehension, but I'm not fully convinced that the prose is quite FA quality in places. I'll await to see what others say about it.♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:55, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments . Pavanjandhyala (talk) 12:33, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll try to give it another read this weekend (tomorrow) and help if I can. I think we can get it there.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:34, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay, I'll try to give it another read/copyedit tomorrow.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:30, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

"While the trio manage to trick Sarma and Sastry, Shakuni's lackeys, Ghatotkacha (in Sasirekha's form) makes Duryodhana's wife rethink the marriage arrangement and teases Lakshmana Kumara. Ghatotkacha plans the wedding in his hermitage in such a way that Krishna, using his divine powers, is present as a guest for the real marriage ceremony of Sasirekha and at the same time present at the marriage taking place in the Mayabazar." -a very long sentence!!♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:09, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Made it into four, in this way : "They manage to trick Sarma and Sastry, Shakuni's lackeys. Ghatotkacha (in Sasirekha's form) makes Duryodhana's wife rethink the marriage arrangement and teases Lakshmana Kumara. He also plans the wedding of the real Sasirekha and Abhimanyu in his hermitage which is attended by Krishna. Using his divine powers, Krishna also attends as a guest for the marriage taking place in the Mayabazar". Would it suffice? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:31, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * yes but you could lose one "also".
 * Done Removed in the sentence "He also plans the wedding of the real Sasirekha and Abhimanyu..." Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:48, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "versions, with a slightly different cast for each. In place of Akkineni Nageswara Rao as Abhimanyu in the Telugu version, Gemini Ganesan appeared in the Tamil version. Savitri was the female lead in both versions; her character was named Sasirekha in the Telugu version and Vatsala in the Tamil version.[" -can you find a way to reword "version" here, it repeats a lot.
 * How about this : "versions, with a slightly different cast for each. Gemini Ganesan appeared as Abhimanyu in the Tamil version, which was portrayed by Akkineni Nageswara Rao in Telugu. Savitri was retained as the female lead in Tamil also; where her character was named Vatsala instead of Sasirekha". I've rephrased it in the article also, feel free to make changes if any. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

" Its outdoor filming lasted for 10 to 15 seconds." -that all? Where was the rest shot then?
 * The source says "The evergreen song "Lahiri, lahiri lo" was shot at Ennore near Madras (now Chennai) at noon. The outdoor shooting lasted only for 10 to 15 seconds", and we wrote "The song "Lahiri Lahiri" was shot in Ennore, a suburb of Chennai. Its outdoor filming lasted for 10 to 15 seconds". Now, what else can i do? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Was the rest shot in the studio then?♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:00, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * May be. Sadly, i don't have the liberty to go ahead like that though. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:02, 23 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "Nageswara Rao was injured on the film's set, and action sequences featuring himself and Ranga Rao were shot only after his recovery, causing a three-month delay in the release of the film." -do we know what injury it actually was?
 * Nageswara Rao said, "Actually, the movie release was postponed by over three months. On the sets of the film, I met with an accident and was hospitalised. Action scenes between me and S.V. Ranga Rao in Maya Bazar were yet to be filmed and were shot only after I was discharged". More than that, nothing was available. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Weak support I think it's close now, but I really think this FAC would benefit from a lot of people looking at it to really make sure it's clear cut, but unfortunately the turn out is poor as usual with Indian films.♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:51, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I'm optimistic that surely someone will post their views very soon. :) Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:06, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Vivvt

 * Missing Oxford commas at some places: "Ramana Reddy , and Relangi Venkata Ramaiah in supporting roles", "V. M. Ezhumalai , and K. A. Thangavelu playing those", "Pingali Nagendrarao assisted with the story, script , and lyrics.", "a crew of 400, including light men, carpenters , and painters,", ""Choopulu Kalisina Shubhavela" , and "Neekosame""
 * Done Added. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "Four of the songs were composed by S. Rajeswara Rao prior to his departure from the project, the reason for which is unknown." Undue in the lead. You may want to club it with the earlier sentence mentioning Ghantasala.
 * Clubbing these two statements may make the prose a bit vague and unclear there, i believe. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "It was a commercial success with mostly positive reviews, with one critic only expressing a preference for the original." Who is this one critic? I think its undue in the lead.
 * I respectfully disagree with this. IMHO, We should summarise the section appropriately, and also mentioning that critic's name in the lead will be more undue. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Mention editors in the infobox.
 * Done Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "Mayabazar was edited by C. P. Jambulingam and G. Kalyanasundaram, and Madhavapeddi Gokhale and Kaladhar were the film's art directors." Replace comma after Kalyanasundaram with semi-colon.
 * Done Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I must say the original structure was correct. If you add a semi-colon, 'and' should be removed. &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 16:05, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Done Removed. Thanks ! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:08, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "and her fifth song was finished by Ghantasala." What does that mean? Did he finish by singing the end or anything else. Just curious.
 * Ghantasala finalised her fifth out of 26 takes (or renditions). Both the copy-editors found "and her fifth song was finished by Ghantasala" more appropriate for this situation. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "It was dubbed into Kannada, and was featured at the 1957 International Film Festival of India". Reads like Kannada version feature into festivals. You may want to rephrase.
 * Done Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Reviewed till release section. More to follow. - Vivvt ( Talk ) 06:36, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim
A great article. Just a few suggestions/comments Jimfbleak - talk to me?
 * marked a milestone… Reddy was meticulous&mdash; essentially opinions, even if supported by the sources, looks a bit weaselly
 * May be. But can you please suggest a better way of mentioning the same? Because, i want the contents of the sections to be effectively summarised. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Ghatotkacha hermitage&mdash;where does the hermitage come from? It's not mentioned in his own article.
 * Ghatotkacha lives in a hermitage in the film. That's why i have mentioned the same there. The story itself is a fictional take, and IMHO the writers took liberty in this aspect. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Folktale&mdash;two words normally.
 * Done Rephrased. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * 300 unique miniature houses&mdash;perhaps 300 miniature houses, each unique.
 * I want my copy-editor's opinion on it. What say ? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it's all right as it is. I think re-phrasing it with "each unique" following a comma puts unnecessary emphasis on the word "unique". Actually, I'm not sure the word "unique" is even necessary. "300 miniature houses" would probably be sufficient.
 * Ref no. 23 (now used) says "Some 300 miniature houses, no two alike, were created in about 50 x 60 ft space and electrified". So using unique is important. But as Corinne said, an additional comma would put unnecessary emphasis. Thus, i wish to leave it as it is. Is it okay, Jim? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * (Black & White) &mdash;is that capitalisation correct?
 * Which is the right one : Black & white or black & white? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, ordinarily it would be lower-case. However, this is in a quote, so if the original source had it capitalized, I guess it should stay that way. Corinne (talk) 15:40, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The original source capitalises it. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * "Films and Theaters",&mdash;the linked source is in Telugu, so I'm unclear where the American spelling of "theatre" comes from, especially as India normally uses BE.
 * Done Rephrased. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:24, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * As I said, they were just suggestions, and I'm happy with the responses, changed to support above Jimfbleak - talk to me?  16:34, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Image review

 * Two fair use images with appropriate rationale and relevance (poster and still). CC licensed photo of a sculpture is also ok, as there is freedom of panorama for 3D art in India. FunkMonk (talk) 14:52, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the image review, ! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done

 * What makes Invisible India a high-quality reliable source?
 * I used it because it is basically a PDF of the official songs book published by Vijaya Vauhini Studios. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)


 * FN59: why cite YouTube here rather than the actual motion picture?
 * I found the full video on YouTube. So, i thought it would be the right thing to cite it. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * For both this and the one above, this is a WP:LINKVIO issue. We should cite the original sources rather than illegitimate copies. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:10, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay then. The content covered by Invisible India can be covered by the film's opening credits. Since you want me to cite the original motion picture, please let me know if this is the right way : Mayabazar (Telugu). (Motion picture) (India: Shalimar Telugu & Hindi Movies). I could find a DVD cover of the black and white version through which i came to know that Shalimar Telugu & Hindi Movies has marketed it. Let me know whether it is the right way to do so. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 15:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:39, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Done Formatted ref no. 1 and 58 in the prescribed way. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 01:53, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Bibliography should be in alphabetical order
 * Done Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Formatting for books should be the same between References and Bibliography - if you're going to include locations for books in the latter, you should in the former as well. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:42, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Done Included the location in ref. no. 6. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Quick comment

* G. Dhananjayan's book The Best of Tamil Cinema, 1931 to 2010 is a WP:MIRROR publication. &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 08:59, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * If that is the case, then also let me know what i am supposed to do. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 09:04, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Try finding alternate sources. &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 09:09, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * As i said before, i cannot remove that source unless its non reliability is proved correctly. However, i've managed to reduce its usage to four instances, by finding support from The Times of India, The Hindu and YouTube. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 09:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but that's not a sufficient response. The article shouldn't be promoted at this state (some portions are cited using this source). &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 12:03, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you please let me know which portions they are? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 12:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Given that you're the nominator, can't you find out those? &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 12:10, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * , i've removed those four also. Can you revisit the article once? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 13:34, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Comments by Dharmadhyaksha

 * All comments resolved and my Support. One pending point is that the article has no criticism of the time when the film was actually released. Will leave this point on others to decide. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:11, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Kailash
Although I am this article's co-nominator, I cannot let it pass FAC until these comments are resolved:
 * The Best of Tamil Cinema by G. Dhananjayan was removed from this article due to alleged plagiarism by the author from us. However, the Mayabazar chapter is not, and less than 50% of the book is plagiarised. Does that still mean the book can be re-added?
 * I don't know. Nether WP:TEAHOUSE nor WP:RSN gave a clear picture regarding this.

*Mayabazar: Music from the Motion Picture can be merged with the main article for two reasons: One, to avoid WP:CONTENTFORK, and two, it isn't really that well-developed enough to warrant a separate article. I know someone may object to the soundtrack image being used in the film article, but you can describe the image and its connection to the plot, as Bollyjeff did in Sholay and Mughal-e-Azam. If you don't wish to merge the articles, at least add the fact that "Vivaha Bhojanambu" is based on "The Laughing Policeman", using this source.
 * Okay, i will merge the articles. But, how can i describe the image and its connection to the plot? It was just a still of Ranga Rao and nothing else, isn't it? I cant merge the articles at this stage. Instead, i have expanded the section, particularly using the source you gave.

* Only the Telugu version's runtime has been mentioned in the article. Please add that for the Tamil version as well, but with a new source.
 * Done

* In some of the quotes, the actors are referred to by nicknames. I suggest you add their real names in square brackets, next to their quoted names.
 * Done Pavanjandhyala (talk) 13:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Once they are resolved, this FAC has my support. Kailash29792 (talk) 11:54, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * New concern: Apart from Dhananjayan, no other source mentions the Tamil version's release date. And The Best of Tamil Cinema is not even a partial rip-off of our work. Vensatry hasn't read it (he has only read Pride, which I accept contains considerable plagiarism), and hence may have misunderstood due to the identical content in the books. Since I have read the book which I bought, I can tell you it is safe to use it here. Kailash29792 (talk) 11:27, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks Kailash, but i want someone else to speak up too! I'm fine with anything that benefits the article. The concerned shall accept to this. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 12:12, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not the problem of book alone, but with the author. It's best to avoid his books at the FAC level. &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 17:25, 15 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Support on references – I am not very good at FACs but I find this article quite satisfying. Mayabazar is very well-sourced and good job with archiving the references. I am not very good with prose, so my support is based on references. --  Frankie talk 19:15, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - Just read the article and found nothing wrong with it. Infact, it meets all the criteria. Congratualtions . Krish |  Talk  17:18, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Support – I have, at last been able to give this my attention—sorry,, for my delay—and I find it a delightful, accurate film article. Well done, I have no hesitation in recommending it. — &#124; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard&#124; — 10:38, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 22:39, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.