Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mikhail Petrovich Petrov (general)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 12:13, 2 January 2017.

Mikhail Petrovich Petrov (general)

 * Nominator(s): Kges1901 (talk) 20:52, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

This article is about a Soviet general and Hero of the Soviet Union who commanded the 50th Army who died in the early stages of the Battle of Moscow. I believe this article meets the Featured Article criteria and want to improve it so it does if it does not in the opinion of other editors. Kges1901 (talk) 20:52, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Procedural note -- Per FAC instructions, you're only allowed one solo nomination at a time unless given leave to open another by the coordinators. Now I can see that Divisional Cavalry Regiment (New Zealand) is reasonably close to being promoted, so you can continue with both noms as we'd normally grant leave in such a case anyway, but in future please make a request on WT:FAC or to the coordinators directly. Feel free to hat this note after acknowledging. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:27, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll remember that next time. Kges1901 (talk) 08:12, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Support per my GA review and A-class review. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 00:26, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I've looked at the changes made since I reviewed this for A-class. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 02:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Support Comments: nice work so far, thanks for your efforts. I have a couple of suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 07:43, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * in the References lists, some of the authors probably could be wikilinked, for instance Ericson and Glantz, and any others if they have articles
 * Done Kges1901 (talk) 08:31, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * suggest adding alt text for the images
 * Done. Kges1901 (talk) 08:53, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * do the sources give his parents' names?
 * No, aside from the obvious that his father was Pyotr Petrov. Kges1901 (talk) 08:31, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * do the sources state if he married and had a family?
 * Petrov probable married because his son is mentioned in one book, but I wasn't able to find the name of his wife if he had one, or if he had other children besides Alexander Mikhailovich Petrov. Kges1901 (talk) 08:31, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * "became an armor officer" --> "became an armored corps officer"?
 * Done. Kges1901 (talk) 08:35, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that the decoration icons in the infobox meet the requirements of MOS:ICON: happy to discuss further if necessary
 * FA-class Ivan Bagramyan and A-class Roza Shanina used the icons. Kges1901 (talk) 08:35, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * My concern is that the icons are purely decorative, serving no navigational purpose. I'd argue that that also applies to he articles cited above. It's not a major issue, and one I'm sure that there are competing opinions on, so I won't die in a ditch over it. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 02:06, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * the infobox mentions an Order of the Red Star, but this doesn't appear in the body of the article. Can something be added about this?
 * I am unsure where to add this, because all I have found is that he received the Order of the Red Star, but not when he received it. Kges1901 (talk) 08:55, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Added date. Kges1901 (talk) 07:54, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * the lead says "mechanic at the Putilov Plant", but the body of the article says "worked as a metalworker at the Putilov Plant" --> this seems a little inconsistent
 * Fixed. Kges1901 (talk) 08:31, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * suggest providing a link for "cadre"
 * Linked. Kges1901 (talk) 08:31, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

A few comments Image review
 * "For his leadership, Petrov received the title Hero of the Soviet Union on 21 June 1937. He returned to the Soviet Union and became a tank corps commander, which he led in the Soviet invasion of Poland. He led a mechanized corps in the initial stages of Operation Barbarossa and became commander of the 50th Army in August 1941. He became ...". I'd re-coordinate the personal references: "For his leadership, he received the title Hero of the Soviet Union on 21 June 1937. Petrove returned to the Soviet Union and became a tank corps commander, which he led in the Soviet invasion of Poland. He led a mechanized corps in the initial stages of Operation Barbarossa and became commander of the 50th Army in August 1941. He became ..."
 * "Petrov was born on 15 January 1898 in Zalustezhye, part of the Saint Petersburg Governorate, to a peasant family." Less bumpy: "Petrov was born to a peasant family on 15 January 1898 in Zalustezhye, part of the Saint Petersburg Governorate."
 * Does "also" add anything?
 * "In Petrograd, he came into contact ..." – avoid repetition: "There he came into contact ..."
 * "and fought in the suppression of the Basmachi." We shouldn't need to click to another article to know what on earth it is. "and fought in the suppression of the Basmachi Revolt, an uprising against Russian Imperial and Soviet rule by the Muslim peoples of Central Asia." ... or something like that.
 * later ... later. Tony   (talk)  09:18, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. Kges1901 (talk) 10:54, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Portrait_-_Petrov,_Michail_Petrovich.jpg: which of the Russian rationales applies here? When/where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:11, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Third bullet, publication date unknown, as I previously state in the GA review. Kges1901 (talk) 09:18, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If we can't demonstrate a pre-1943 publication, we can't use that rationale. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:51, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Then should it be reuploaded as Fair Use? Kges1901 (talk) 10:48, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, assuming no free image can be found. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:25, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The only source I can think of for a free image we can prove was published before 1943 are probably Soviet newspapers like Pravda, Isvestiya, and Krasnaya Zvezda. Kges1901 (talk) 11:08, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Comments, leaning oppose for now -- recusing from my coord duties to review... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:29, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have to admit the article seems a bit thin to me for a general's career, even one who died relatively young. For example it seems he did very little  between the dates of 1923 and 1932.
 * The lack of detail also makes for awkward prose in places, e.g. "He graduated from the Transcaucasian Political School." -- this sentence just sits there, do we really have no idea when this took place?
 * I'm also confused about all he did in 1937: "...serving as a battalion commander in Dmitry Pavlov's tank brigade from October 1936 to June 1937. [...] Returning to the Soviet Union, he held appointments as a battalion commander and then as a tank brigade commander. In 1937, he became commander of a tank division. In June of that year, he became commander of the 5th Mechanized Corps." This seems to be telling me that in the one year (1937) he commanded two different battalions, a tank brigade, a tank division, and a mechanised corps -- is that really possible?
 * I stopped there as far as the main body went. On a more prosaic matter, I share Rupert's concerns with the decorative icons in the infobox: regardless of what might be done in other articles, the Hero of the Soviet Union and Order of Lenin decorations should just be spelt out and linked, like the Order of the Red Star -- apart from anything else, using icons for some awards and words for another is inconsistent.
 * I found his graduation date and removed the icons in the infobox. As for what he did in 1937, the sources differ.
 * Parrish: command of tank battalion in Spain, division, 5th Mechanized Corps
 * Vozhakin: command of tank battalion in Spain, battalion (after return to Soviet Union), brigade, division
 * Drig: command of tank battalion in Spain, battalion (after return to Soviet Union), brigade, 5th Mechanized Corps
 * Tank/Motorized divisions did not exist in the Red Army until 1940 (per Drig), so if he commanded a division it would be from another branch.Kges1901 (talk) 09:52, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I must say, I felt as Ian Rose does when I flicked through it on 15 October. Tony   (talk)  12:32, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Closing comment: This nomination seems to have stalled a little here. Nothing has happened now for six weeks and the kindest thing to do is to archive it. This may be a little harsh as we have three supports, but there is also a well-considered leaning oppose, and had a few worries. No-one else has come forward, so I don't think we have a consensus to promote at this stage. Rather than leave it here gathering dust, it may be better to start again. My suggestion would be to wait the usual two weeks, but to use that time to get a little more feedback. Perhaps you could ask  and Tony1 for their further views before renominating. When this is renominated, a neutrally worded message to those who have commented at this FAC would also be fine (along the lines of "[Article], that you reviewed at its previous FAC, has been renominated"), and if the images remain the same, you can link to this FAC to cover the image review. Sarastro1 (talk) 12:13, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Sarastro1 (talk) 12:13, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.