Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/National Anthem of Russia/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 20:43, 13 March 2010.

National Anthem of Russia

 * Nominator(s): User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:12, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: WP:FFA, has already been on main page

This article was sent to FAC about 4-5 years ago by me, boy hasn't things changed around here. I was away in Japan when this article was sent to FAR, so I did not manage to get a hold of the article while I was there. Not your fault that I needed a vacation, but that is the nature of Wikipedia. Alright, here is a summary of the issues talked about at FAR in June or July of 2009:

The references has exploded in number (I would say by 700%). I also made sure the references were also sent to working websites or to books that are in English. I added more details about the historical anthems and put in better pictures (with alt text). I also shored up the text as much as possible, but I did have a minor copyedit or two during the GAN process. There was a lot of audio clips in the article, but I decided to nuke all of them except for those coming from kremlin.ru (where we have OTRS confirmation on everything from there). I added some musical details about the music itself and added more links to the Commons with the files that we have.

I wish I gotten to it sooner, but I am very glad I was able to fix this up and at least get it back to GAN. I hope you are satisified that this article could be well enough to regain the FA star. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:12, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comments. No dab links or dead external links. Alt text present and good, but missing for a video (had to tweak a template to make it show up for another); see WP:ALT for relevant advice. Ucucha 20:23, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the alt text to the video. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:27, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose — sorry, this nomination is premature. The prose falls far below the required standard. The problems are numerous and examples include:
 * The song is a modification - try "adaptation"
 * "who had supplied lyrics" - lyrics are not "supplied" they are written
 * This sentence completely lacks logical flow, "Between 1956 and 1977, the anthem was officially without lyrics because of the references to the formerly denounced ruler Joseph Stalin." - Surely this means that there were lyrics but they were not used because they contained references to Stalin?
 * There is a finite verb missing here, " the anthem decreed official in 1993 without lyrics".
 * Here, "the anthem did not catch on" is not professional prose.
 * This is another example of problem with logical flow, "Despite government efforts to produce lyrics, none were found." In this example the use of "produce" versus "found" is neither logical nor idiomatic.
 * The verb tenses are wrong here, "President Vladimir Putin decided that Alexandrov's music was to be restored and new lyrics were to be written for it." - try "should".

These examples are only from the Lead. I suggest that this candidate be withdrawn and a competent, independent copy editor sought. Graham Colm (talk) 23:20, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I am finding folks right now. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:43, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * User:SMasters is providing the copyedit as I speak. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 16:56, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Media Check: Passed - 7 things. All are CC-by-SA or PD, either due to self-photo, GovRussia, or Russian public works. Everything is at Commons, and looks good. -- Pres N  18:00, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Oppose—I agree with Graham Colm.
 * Lead: "Because of the absence of lyrics, the anthem was not popular and in addition, did not inspire Russian athletes during international competitions." The comma is awkward; so is the "in addition". The second claim appears to be hard to support, even if you have found a source. All Russian athletes?
 * The music score is so squashed up that it has become ugly. I suggest it appear below, larger.
 * Music section: used ... use ... used. And "The music was first used in the Hymn of the Bolshevik Party, created in 1939"—the party or the hymn was created in 1939? The music was used in the hymn ... I'm pondering exactly what this means.

This is a quick-fail. Delegate, please note that I am the second reviewer to ask that this be withdrawn and worked on before submission. FAC is not a fix-it mechanics' shop. Tony  (talk)  12:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * As I told Graham, a copyedit to the article has been performed on the article and it is in the works. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 15:18, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * For the music, how it is supposed to go is that the similar musical pattern, notes and style was present in a few songs before it became the Russian anthem. The music of the Russian anthem and the "Hymn of the Bolshevik Party" is the same, but the "Hymn of the Bolshevik  Party" came first in 1939. I would need to find recordings again and put those in the article. I did also fix the lead to say several Russian teams because I have sources that said the Russian football team and Russian Olympians did not feel inspired by the anthem. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 15:23, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Oppose I too am concerned with the prose. Parts like these do not lend confidence.
 * "The anthem is also played on television and radio before the start and closing of programming or if the programming is continuous, the anthem is played at 2400 and 0600 hours and on New Years Eve." (odd structure)
 * "The only penalty that is present in the national anthem law was to punish those who do not stand up for the anthem." (tense, is/was)
 * "It's alleged that on one occasion, Putin chastised the national football team" ("It's", and who alleges this?)

Also, is the "unofficial" anthem translation our own? If so, have you made sure it correctly and neutrally interprets the Russian? (The "not OR" essay suggests "Any original translations should be faithful, to the point of literalness; if interpretation is called for, it should be explicitly in parenthetical notes.") The ongoing copyedits (and in this state it'll need copyedits, not just one) need to address those issues (and others). Good luck, and I like the video (proof, as if we needed more, that wiki is not paper). --an odd name 00:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The translation is a free one by Wikipedians but I am not certain about how exactly it translates from the original Russian. As for the first part, Russian law states that the anthem must be played at certain times of day. If the radio or television programming is not 24/7, the anthem is played at the start and ending of programming. If the station does run 24/7, the anthem plays at 2400 and 0600 hours. The anthem is also required to be played on New Years after the President gives a speech. The second part, I am not aware of any punishment for disrespecting the anthem other than not standing up for it. I am going to play around with that third part. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 03:42, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.