Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Neil Brooks/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 03:06, 16 June 2010.

Neil Brooks

 * Nominator(s):  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

No, not a cricketer. Neil Brooks was an Australia freestyle swimmer of the 1980s who was part of the victorious team in the 4x1 medley relay at the Moscow Olympics. A rebellious character, he was suspended for a physical altercation with a coach (leading to a team revolt), booted out of the Australian Institute of Sport for indiscipline, and finally retired in 1986 after being suspended for drinking 46 cans of beer in one session on the return flight from the 1986 Commonwealth Games. Later, he became a journalist and sports broadcaster, but was sacked after a few drunken incidents  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources issues
 * Ref 24: the publisher appears to be marksonsparks, not Celebrity Speakers per ref. 23.
 * Why are Celebrity Speakers and marksonsparks considered reliable? Each seems to be a plug advertising the services of Neil Brooks, and neither appears to have a neutral encyclopedic quality.

Otherwise all sources seem OK. Brianboulton (talk) 12:46, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed the first point. For the second point, I considered those two as his agents, so they are effectively self-published sources. I only used them under the provision of WP:SELFPUB, only including the raw fact that he was a newsreader and swimming broadcaster, and not the fluff that he is quality, versatile etc, so there should be no POV problem. The fact that he called Olympic swimming and football for Channel 7 is not disputed by anyone in Australia and I could just delete the source and leave the material unsourced as it is not "likely to be challenged", if that is determined to be more efficient.  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  06:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand that the information cited to these sources is factual rather than interpretative, and I won't pursue the point, but on principle I feel that if possible, sources like these should be avoided lest a general impression is given that WP relies on material like this for the substance of its articles. Brianboulton (talk) 08:49, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I understand. I have a strong aversion to websites generally and never use them in Vietnamese history articles, and only a minority in sport articles, generally for stats databases not analytical comment. I'll be on the loohout for stuff to replace it if it comes up  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:03, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment— a dab link to FINA World Cup, no dead external links. Ucucha 15:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Done.  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  06:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Tentative Support Comments  - as I said, I'd be happier with a more comprehensive treatment, but if there's nothing else out there then it is impossible to improve. Also, an image would be great (I get the impression he'd give us one if we asked nicely) but again, if we don't have we don't have. I don't see any deal-breaker clangers prose wise but suspect other reviewers might find bits and pieces. beginning a read-through now. I'll jot notes below. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:50, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 *  Duff was virtually outside Western Australia. - I have no idea what this means here.
 * Added "unknown"  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 *  Known for his rebellious nature - Brooks or the coach?
 * Brooks. Tweaked  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 *  Beatty Park Pool - might be good to anchor this to a suburb it is located in.
 * Linked. Didn't know it was an international quality pool for the Comm Games, rather innocuous name  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * who had a reputation for being wild - mmmm, think I'd reword but not sure what to. "wild reputation" sounds a little better.
 * Tweaked  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 *  The inaugural director Don Talbot, a former head coach of the Australians swimming team, expelled him for indiscipline - be good to know why exactly/what happened.
 * True..but Talbot wrote in his book that he can't remember anything specific except general disruptiveness/indiscipline  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * What's a shortcourse pool? (or a longcourse for that matter..) - can we link them somewhere?
 * Yeah  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * His family aren't mentioned much after the beginning. I don't get much of a feel about them or his relationships with them, so if anything can be added that'd be good, but if not don't worry.
 * True. There is no biography of the guy apart from a minibio in an Olympic compilation book. Thanks  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I did see this on google books, but only a snippet view, and also this looks intriguing. If you can check the first one might be a little more on some relationships. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:20, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, the first book is by a much-loathed spammer/promoter, so I wonder if it would be considered RS in any case with its self-aggrandisations, but the book doesn't seem to be stocked in any library in the whole state. The second is Nadine Neumann's autobiography and only has one mention of Brooks when he itnerviewed her after a race  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  03:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point. I thought Markson might have said something interesting but I suspect from the link that it wasn't much related to swimming so is (I suspect) of less encyclopedic value really. Okay....Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:55, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You want more on the swimming or the other stuff? emailed both Brooks and Mark Tonelli two years ago and didn't get a reply  YellowMonkey   ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  05:42, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Support—Very interesting article. Thankyou YellowMonkey for being so quick to respond to my concerns.  Aaroncrick  TALK 09:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Support—comprehensive article.--Grahame (talk) 02:05, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Support – Read through the article from start to finish, and for the most part it was a good read. There were a few copy-edit needs remaining, but I went through the article and took care of the things I saw, though I forgot that there were a couple of abbreviations (FINA and NCAA) that could use spelling out. Also, the "He has now lost substantial weight" sentence is time-sensitive as is and could use some re-wording, especially since the source is from 2007. Still, the article is of the standard I've come to expect.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 02:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Giants: "Brooks retired thereafter, moving to Nambour, Queensland and started a rock band called The Union. How come you changed started to starting?  Aaroncrick  TALK 04:49, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've always thought that in a situation like this, the elements should be both passive or active voice, not both, as with "moving" and "started". I didn't think they worked well together, so I changed one of them. I wasn't sure if a comma was meant to be after Queensland, but didn't think one was needed so I made the passive voice change instead. If you don't like the switch, go ahead and switch it back.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 14:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure for FINA and NCAA  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  00:29, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.