Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New South Greenland


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 00:30, 10 January 2009.

New South Greenland

 * Nominator(s): Brianboulton (talk)

As a change from the serious expedition stuff, here's a lighter tale of the earliest days of Antarctic exploration. It tells of the discovery of land by a New Yorker, Benjamin Morrell. Other people tried to find his land, but couldn't, and it was eventually proved nonexistent - a fact that made headline news in the New York Times. Captain Morrell was by all accounts a bit of a chancer, a plausible rogue, perhaps, but an engaging character all the same, whose story is worth telling. Thanks to Ruhrfisch for mapping the nonexistent land, and to peer reviewers generally for some excellent suggestions.

Re sources, a couple of points: South-pole.com is a huge site that covers just about every Antarctic venture since before Captain Cook and until after World War II. Its reliability largely comes from its being approved by the Scott Polar Research Institute. This is SPRI's Index to Antarctic Expeditions which provides links to what it calls "the best summaries" of expeditions, and every link is to a South.pole.com sub-page. Also, I can't find out who is behind Geonames.com, but it is a brilliant resource for finding and confirming placenames anywhere in the world. Enough from me. Brianboulton (talk) 21:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - another excellent Antarctica-related article. I read the page and did some copyediting a few days ago, and the writing is brilliant. Well done. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  21:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much Brianboulton (talk) 00:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Image review File:1894 map of Antactica.jpg - Do you have the issue and volume number for this magazine? According to WP:IUP, we should give a complete bibliographic entry for sources. All images have verifiable licenses and adequate descriptions. Awadewit (talk) 23:23, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's Vol X No. 2, as confirmed by this. I have added these details to the image source details. Brianboulton (talk) 00:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Awadewit (talk) 19:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments -
 * You mentioned above two questionable sources, I'm a bit concerned about geonames, and would like to see some more about it. But I'll leave these out there for other reviewers to decide for themselves.
 * I don't think South-pole.com can be termed "questionable" when it has endorsement from SPRI. As to Geonames, it is one of the few sources not connected to Wikipedis (e.g. wikimapia, etc) that actually gives Morrell Island as an alternative name to Thule Island in the South Sandwich Group. Geonames doesn't give much information as to who is behind the site, but the organisation is clearly world-wide, with 8 million names on the database. The site gives good information, too, including the coordinates for every name. It looks a thorough and professional job. Brianboulton (talk) 19:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Your books from Googlebooks. They should be treated just like usual books, with the original publisher. Google is just hosting them, they did none of the fact checking etc.
 * The sources list showed no mentions of Google books. I had forgotten to remove them from some of the in-line citations, but have now done so. Brianboulton (talk) 19:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It was the inline's I was referring to, but are now fixed. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:20, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What makes http://www.badarchaeology.net/data/buache.php a reliable source?
 * Looking for a source that gives Morrell's date of death, I chose this as likely the most reliable: a site run by archaeologists with the aim of exposing archaeological blunders. To cover myself, I have said in the text that Morrell "reportedly" died in 1839 rather than being too definite about it. None of the books are any help, and other websites that mention his death look less reliable than this one, though they all say 1839. It would not be the end of the world if the date was removed, but I'd like to keep it if I can. Brianboulton (talk) 19:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This one, like geonames, I'll leave out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:20, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Support Comment . I reviewed this at peer review and was impressed; the article has improved since then. Just a couple of comments before I support. -- Mike Christie (talk) 19:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "searched for, but found no traces of land,": I think the first comma should go. The alternative would be to make it the first of a parenthetical pair: "searched for, but found no traces of, land," but that looks too fussy to me.
 * Comma deleted.
 * The account you give of d'Urville is followed by a sentence that says Morrell's claims were ignored after d'Urville's failure to find land. Since these come from different sources, I thought I should check; is there any causal connection here, in that d'Urville's report caused general doubt about Morrell's claims?  Or does Mills make no reference to d'Urville?  If the latter is the case, then I think it would be better to avoid implying a connection.
 * I understand the point, and have reworded in a way which I hope clarifies no direct causal connection. Two separate reasons are given for doubting Morrell's claims: D'Urville finds no evidence of land, quite apart from which the error-ridden nature of Morrell's account caused geographers to doubt him. I hope that is clear now. Brianboulton (talk) 22:12, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Everything now looks good. Switching to support. Mike Christie (talk) 11:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Many thanks Brianboulton (talk) 09:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Support by Ruhrfisch. In the interest of full disclosure (and as noted above), I made the New South Greenland map in the article. I have a few minor quibbles (that do not detract from my support): Overall another fine article and well deserving of FA, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:32, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "Wasp sailed south from New York on 22 June 1822." Should the link here be to New York City, which is the main seaport in New York state? Many Americans will refer to New York City as just "New York".
 * Kilometers (for nine miles) should also be given here per the MOS At 2 pm next day, 15 March, as Wasp cruised north-east in the sea that would later bear Weddell's name, Morrell records: "land was seen from the masthead, bearing west, distance 3 leagues" (about nine miles).[14]
 * Probably also want English and metric units for the fathoms in On 25 August a further sounding of 1,900 fathoms gave Shackleton additional evidence of the non-existence of New South Greenland.[26]
 * I have fixed the New York City link, and added the requested conversions. With regard to Shackleton's fathoms, I had left this because of the conversion of a similar distance in the same paragraph, not wanting to clutter the prose, but strictly speaking I agree it ought to be there. Thanks for all your help. Brianboulton (talk) 09:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Was very impressed by this at peer review and its has only improved since. Happy to offer my support.--Jackyd101 (talk) 10:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support I too am very impressed, particularly with prose, this is beautifully written. It was frustrating for me, a nit-picker, to find just one typo. Good grief Brian, just how many FAs have you written this year? Oh, it's 2009, I forgot; looks like one so far :-) Graham Colm Talk 19:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * None so far this year, perhaps this will be the first. Please continue to look for typos and other nitpicks, Graham, your persistence in this area is very much appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 23:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.