Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New York State Route 28


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 01:51, 19 June 2008.

New York State Route 28
previous FAC (23:15, 30 April 2008) I am nominating this article on behalf of WP:NYSR, who did a great job on this. After some copyediting and several tweaks, I feel this article meets all the criteria. Comments are welcome. Thanks, Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  13:17, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments - I remain a bit concerned about this source: http://www.gribblenation.net/nyroutes/images/photos/routes/087i/087i-09975n.jpg, but given the not exactly earthshaking nature of the sourced information, it's not a big priority. Otherwise, sources look good, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:38, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Since it's just an image, I don't know how unreliable it can be. I'll try to find another source. Good to hear the rest of the links are good. :) Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  14:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not so much that that picture itself wouldn't be considered a reliable source, but the bald link to a picture without any text surrounding it, it's hard to be sure that this is a picture of the exit in question. Did that explain it a bit better? Ealdgyth - Talk 15:01, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I understand. That little tab on the top-right of the sign shows the exit number, but I don't know if that makes a difference. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  15:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but It's still not clear that the picture is of that particular interstate, although nothing says it's incorrect either. Like I said, it's not a big big deal, but something that might be bettered. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Even though the information isn't amazingly informative, I think we should take it down until we have a better source. Not much is lost but respectability is gained! :) Awadewit (talk) 18:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Alrigt, source removed. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  18:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Leaning towards support The article has a very detailed description of the route that is relatively easy to follow. Since I don't usually review road articles, I have a few questions:


 * I think there should be a caption under the map indicating that NY 28 is the red line. Currently, you have to click on the map to see the legend.


 * Esopus Creek turns south here; however, it continues northwest along Birch Creek to the former village (now hamlet) of Pine Hill.  - This is confusing. The creek turns both south and northwest?


 * These images are not very inspiring, I must say. Is there any way to obtain images of significant places along the route, such as where it first leaves a waterway, Cooperstown, the only part not maintained by NYSDOT, a view of the Adirondack Mountains, or perhaps the terminus?


 * Have there been any major construction projects or improvements to this road during its history other than what is listed in the "Realignments"? It would seem that such information would be important for the article.

Thanks for taking the time to painstakingly detail these local roads! Awadewit (talk) 18:01, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the comments. Unfortunately, there's not much I can do about the map. I fixed that senetence about the creek. While the images aren't very good, they're image, and I don't think I'll be able to get better ones for several months. About the history, state rioads generally don't have a lot of information about constructions projects, so alignmtents and realignments are propbably the best we can do. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  18:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you can't add a caption to the map. What is restricting that function?
 * It would be nice to obtain better images in the future, but I understand that is hard to do.
 * I wonder if state budgets and government hearings would have information on construction projects? That seems like the kind of source you would have to go to for that. Awadewit (talk) 18:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't have the computer programing (nor the knowledge of where to get it) to create, update or adjust maps. WP:USRD/MTF is where maps a made, so I'll reguest a new one right away. When I get a chance, I'll look into trying to find more info on history. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  21:09, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You should not have to adjust the map itself, only the caption, which can be changed in the infobox. Awadewit (talk) 21:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Alright, I tried to add a caption to the map. Let me know if it's any better. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  22:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Julian left a note on my talk page indicating that the sources are too thin to add more on the history, so I am now supporting. Thanks for checking! `Awadewit (talk)

Support Has some minor wording issues in my opinion, but nothing besides that is restrictive in terms of FAC. TheNobleSith (talk) 21:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Gary <i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk ) 02:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed the first and third comment. If I reworded that sentence, it would change the meaning, as the turnpike went east of the river as well. Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  13:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments on images Kelly hi! 04:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The source on Image:NY 28 at US 209 interchange in Catskills.jpg is a dead link...I see there is a link to here as a claim for the GPL license but there's no way to confirm the GPL applies to this image without a better source. Also, the terms on the mryamamoto.com site specifically don't allow derivative works ("Permission is granted to freely use any of my content, as long as it is not modified...") which unfortunately isn't "free" so far as Wikipedia is concerned. The same applies to Image:NY 28 at NY 5S west.jpg.
 * Image:Kingston, New York 1955 Yellow Book.jpg should be converted to SVG format per WP:IUP.
 * That last image is a scanned image, and per WP:IUP should be a JPEG, if I'm understanding correctly. Imzadi1979 (talk) 04:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually since it's a map/drawing (especially in black/white) it should be a vector image - "Drawings, icons, political maps, flags and other such images are preferably uploaded in SVG format as vector images.". Kelly  hi! 04:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops, I should have linked to WP:PIFU, which contains a lot more detail on image formats. Kelly  hi! 12:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Images aren't my strong point, so I'll try to figure this out. To my knowledge, those first two images were not modified, but are exactly the same as they are on the website. Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  13:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand, this can be a confusing issue. Basically to be considered free content, images have to meet the Four Freedoms, the last one of which is the freedom to make derivative works. Licenses which don't allow derivative works fall under this criteria for deletion. Kelly  hi! 13:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. Thanks for explaining that to me. The pictures in question have been removed, so it should be good now. Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  22:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose, 1b. There are some minor prose problems, which I list below, but I was really disappointed at how the narrative doesn't really get off the ground in the History section.  It doesn't appear to have been fully researched.  In "Old roads" we get some information, but a red link and very little back-story leave the reader without information on construction, development, politics, financing, etc.  The next heading vaguely implies that the old turnpike became NY 28 but I'm completely lost by time I get to the sentence about NY 9.  This really needs to be fleshed out and we need a clear narrative about what existing roads became NY 28, what was constructed when and how, and so on.
 * "The southern terminus of NY 28 is at NY 32 in Kingston and the northern terminus is at U.S. Route 9 in Warrensburg." I'm fairly certain "terminus is ..." is more proper than "terminus is at ...".
 * What's an "at-grade intersection"?
 * "Not long afterward ..." is too subjective.
 * "Esopus Creek turns south here; however, it once again turns northwest along Birch Creek to the former village (now hamlet) of Pine Hill." Here, it becomes confusing whether you are writing about the creek or the road.
 * "In 1802, the Ulster and Delaware Turnpike was chartered ..." Passive voice eliminates the subject... who chartered it?
 * "NY 28 was designated in 1924 ..." Ditto. -- Laser brain  (talk)  17:37, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. I fixed and clarified those prose issues. About the turnpike information, as only about 1/3 of the turnpike's length is now NY 28, it would stray too far off topic to include the full history of it. I'll look for that other requested information, but given it's a state route, I doubt there will be any. Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  18:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay.. I went through the prose again and I'm happy with it. But, and maybe I'm just being dense (likely), I simply do not understand the transition through "Old roads" to "Designation".  It does not seem to clearly state what roads became NY 28, and it's more than one, right?  They didn't build any new roads, they just designated existing roads? -- Laser brain   (talk)  22:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The second paragraph of the "Designation" section describes the roads to which the NY 28 designation was given. Let me know if you think it does not do so clearly enough. Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  14:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Support, I don't have any further issues with the article. The prose is on par and available sources appear to have been utilized. -- Laser brain   (talk)  21:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.