Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New York State Route 73/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 21:02, 17 November 2008.

New York State Route 73

 * Nominator(s): Mitch32(UP)

I'm nominating this article for featured article because the article is ready, and in terms of articles for Essex County, New York, this is one of the more stable ones. (If you want an idea where this is going: Look at New York State Route 22, New York State Route 28N, and New York State Route 373). Again, I'm open to comments, and that we (US Roads) wish to listen to comments, and discuss our feelings on them. Anyway, this article, after a debate on IRC, has been solved and should be ready for Featured Article.Mitch32(UP) 01:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

The following is from the lead alone.
 * New York State Route 73 (also referred by the New York State Department of Transportation as NY 73) - "Also referred by" &rarr; "also referred to by".
 * Done - Mitch32'(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It heads through some of the mountains in the Adirondack Region, crossing the bases of some of the tallest mountains in the state, including Porter and Lower Wolfjaw Mountains. - First, remove "some" in both uses. Second, "heads" is a very poor word to use. Third, the part about some of the highest mountains in New York is vague. A mountain is either the tallest in the state, or not the tallest in the state.
 * Done - Mitch32'(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The original highways in the area were in poor condition in the area which eventually became known as Keene, New York. - "In the area were ... in the area."
 * Done - Mitch32'(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Most of these highways highways were mainly unbalanced and in some areas close to impassible. - Doubled word.
 * Done - Mitch32'(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Eventually, people settled in the area, helping the area grow into Keene. - "Eventually" is a vague word, yet it's used three times in this paragraph of the lead. Also, something about "helping the area grow" reads poorly.
 * Done - Mitch32'(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Keene eventually opened a privately-maintained road to AuSable Lake, helping generate funds for the growing area in the Adirondack Park. - "AuSable" is, to my knowledge and according to a related article, correctly spelled as either "Ausable" or "Au Sabel".
 * Done - Mitch</FONT>32'(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The area continued to prosper over time, until the state-wide takeover of roads in 1909. - Not sure what it is, but this sentence seems to stop before it's finished.
 * Done - <FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="-1" COLOR="red">Mitch</FONT>32'(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Good luck, –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  01:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The route that paralleled to the north after Schroon was known as New York State Route 86A, with the rest designated as New York State Route 427. - Not sure exactly what this is trying to say. Also, remove the bolding, as it's not part of the article title.
 * All comments are resolved.<FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="-1" COLOR="red">Mitch</FONT>32(UP) 15:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

These are just examples of things that I find particularly "wrong". The entire article needs significant work, and I suggest you find a copyeditor to help you along. Cheers, –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  16:04, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * More comments
 * The highway heads towards the southwest, passing local homes as Sentinel Road. - I'm using this sentence as an example for a couple things. First, I still would like to see "heads" replaced with a better word throughout the article. Also, nearly every mile on the highway is bound to contain at least a few homes, so there's really no need to mention them. If you do decide to keep it, I have a question. Is a local home any different than a regular home?
 * The surroundings of the highway remain the same as they leave Lake Placid via Cascade Road. - Eh, not really comfortable saying that the land moves.
 * There, Essex County Route 35 merges in from the northwest, providing a bypass around the village of Lake Placid to NY 86. - Remove "in".
 * Cascade Road makes several turns in direction, passing south of the Craig Wood Golf Course. - No need for "in direction".
 * Just after the golf course, Route 73 climbs in elevation again, this time up to 2,000 feet (610 m). - Remove "just", "again", and "this time up".
 * Route 73 begins to descend in elevation, while County Route 51 splits off and Route 73 soon heads into Keene. - Remove "soon".
 * Just after Norton Cemetery, Route 9N splits off to the east and Route 73 continues southward. - Remove "just".
 * Lower Wolfjaw Mountain, which averages the same height as Porter, is passed to the east by Route 73 and the Ausable River branch. - "Is passed to the east" is poorly worded.
 * There are a few more ponds and mountains before NY 73 merges into U.S. Route 9. - Change "merges in" to a more precise phrase. "Ends, "terminates", "comes to an end", would suffice.
 * The town of Keene was created from annexing parts of Jay and Elizabethtown on March 19, 1808. - "By" &rarr; "from".
 * A nearby highway was extended to Keene Center via Lewis and Jay, but the highway was hardly passable due to the structure of the highway. - Avoid using the same word three times in the same sentence.
 * However, exporting the items made by these industries were hard, because there was a lack of transportation in the area. - "Exporting were hard"?
 * The area continued to grow, and in 1882, when the Adirondack Park was created as a protected area in the state, a privately tolled and maintained road to lower AuSable Lake was constructed. - Again, fix the spelling of Ausable.
 * The new road helped the economy of what became known as Keene Valley. - If this road is what would eventually become NY 73, please clarify that.
 * By 1961, NY 73 was also extended eastward through Ticonderoga to the ferry dock on Lake Champlain, connecting to Vermont Route 74 (via the Fort Ticonderoga-Larrabees Point Ferry) and replacing NY 347. - Remove "also", and change the hyphen to an endash.
 * In the early 1970s, NY 73 was truncated to its current eastern terminus in Underwood, eliminating the lengthy overlap with US 9, while its former routing from Schroon to Lake Champlain was renumbered to NY 74. - "Lengthy" is POV.
 * All comments, are yet, resolved.<FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="-1" COLOR="red">Mitch</FONT>32(UP) 16:18, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

–Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  16:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * More comments &mdash; Alright, now that my specific concerns about prose have been addressed, I see a few instances of original research.
 * Lower Wolfjaw Mountain, which averages the same height as Porter, is visible from Route 73 and the Ausable River branch. - I highly doubt Goole Maps says that the mountain is visible; assuming that it is would be original research.
 * After the golf course, Route 73 climbs in elevation, up to 2,000 feet (610 m). - As far as I can tell, Google Maps doesn't show the route reaching 2,000 ft in elevation. If this is indeed the case, please remove this, and the other mention of elevation.
 * The riverbed region of Keene soon hosted the first community, and the town began to grow, with Keene Flats being a full-fledged community by 1840. - The source doesn't say anything about Keene being "full-fledged".
 * The new road, now part of NY 73, helped the economy of what became known as Keene Valley. - The source doesn't say the road helped the economy.
 * Done, yet again.<FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="-1" COLOR="red">Mitch</FONT>32(UP) 16:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)}}


 * Oppose &mdash; Although all of my specific concerns have been addressed, the prose still needs substantial work. –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  16:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Image review All other images have descriptions and verifiable licenses. Awadewit (talk) 19:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:New York Route 73 map.png - This map needs to include the sources on which it was based.
 * Oppose I'm afraid I just lost a more detailed critique than this will be to service provider problems. The prose is still poor - I now see many of the things that hit me were the "fixes" to Julian's issues above - in several cases the cure is worse than the disease. "unbalanced soil"??? Or just "unstable"?  Look at the 2nd New York in the article - what is that doing there?  It'll be a long & winding road I'm afraid. Johnbod (talk) 19:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Btw, what does "Anyway, this article, after a debate on IRC, has been solved and should be ready for Featured Article" mean? Johnbod (talk) 19:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It was a minor debate regarding the inclusion of traffic count data. –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  19:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok - sounded more sinister ;) Johnbod (talk) 20:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose per 1b and 1c. The article has essentially three sections of prose. 1) The "Route description" section is simply a written description of what can be seen off of Google Maps. The information is not taken from a solid secondary source. 2) The "Keene's highways" section is just a history of the area, not of the road itself. 3) The "Designation" section appears to be a history of how the road numbering changed, but the "history" is not from a source describing the history. The "history" is created by cherry-picking old maps and seeing how the numbering changes. This is effectively original research. --RelHistBuff (talk) 12:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a current discussion at WT:NOR about the classification of maps. I wouldn't base an oppose off of an opposition to the use of maps as a source yet. --Rschen7754 (T C) 20:55, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose: The article seems to be pretty well written, but I'm concerned about the complete lack of references in the first section, especially the second paragraph of that section. Nearly every statement in that paragraph needs a ref, and there are none.  That's not to say that the article isn't good; it is better than most road articles on Wikipedia.  But it needs a good bit of work (and sourcing) before it will be FA status.  Just my two cents. --Andrew Kelly (talk) 17:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * References in the lead are optional, per WP:LEAD. All of the information is already cited in the body of the article. –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  17:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll strike my oppose. I can't go so far as to support though.  The article just doesn't a whole lot of information and other more experienced editors have some legitimate concerns. --Andrew Kelly (talk) 17:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Has the nominator made any effort to address the concerns raised? (Rhetorical question, but seriously, where are you?) –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  18:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, waiting on my hired copyeditor to actually copyedit the article.<FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="-1" COLOR="red">Mitch</FONT>32(UP) 20:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose: I compare this with other road articles that have been granted FA status (see U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Keyser's Ridge – Cumberland, Maryland)as a good example) and this article comes up very short of the mark. It needs a lot more work to become Featured. Blueboar (talk) 16:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but this oppose is rather vague. What kind of work does it need? –Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  16:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Assuming it can be sourced, I would like to see more on the history of the road itself (as opposed to the history of the towns it runs through)... When was it hacked out of the wilderness?... I know that there is a landmark called "Stagecoach Rock" near Cascade Lake... which seems to indicate that the route might have used as a stage coach line at one point... if this can be verified, it would be a nice addition to mention it. What about including something on how the road was widended for the 1980 Winter Olympics... or the fact that the section from Keene to Lake Placid was all but closed while the Olympics occured... did that have any impact on local economy?  In other words... to be featured, the article needs something that tells the reader why this road is special and different from the hundreds of other NY State roads.Blueboar (talk) 19:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close.  Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the  template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 21:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.