Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/No Panties/archive1

No Panties

 * Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 10:43, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

This article is a hip hop song by American rapper Trina, featuring American singer Tweet, from Trina's second studio album Diamond Princess (2002). Despite its provocative title, the song is actually about keeping one's clothes on and not having sex with a man unless he has money. I initially worked on this article in 2020, as I'm interested in women in hip hop, and although I dislike this song, I decided to come back to it to improve it further. Any comments would be much appreciated. Aoba47 (talk) 10:43, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Source review from Heartfox–pass
Quality
 * I don't know if a 15-year-old's review in the Home News Tribune would be considered a high-quality source
 * That makes sense. I have removed the source. I was on the fence about it, but I was uncertain if it would qualify as it was published in a newspaper, but I agree that alone does not make it a high-quality source. Aoba47 (talk) 12:50, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * What makes The Rough Guide to Hip-Hop a high-quality source?
 * I have removed it as it really did not provide that much information. I do not think the Timbaland comparisons are particularly helpful for readers since the writer does not delve deeply into it other than saying that it is there. Aoba47 (talk) 12:50, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * satisfied with other non-mainstream sources due to citing in books by reputable publishers, etc.
 * Thank you for checking. Aoba47 (talk) 12:50, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * ABCNewsRadio should be ABC News Radio; currently it's linked to the Australian one.
 * That is a very silly mistake on my part so apologies for that. Aoba47 (talk) 12:50, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Formatting
 * Shapiro 2005 Google Books displays no preview for me; not sure about relevance of link
 * I had put in the link more for verifiability purposes, but I have since removed this source from the article per an above comment. Aoba47 (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * suggest adding via=Google Books for refs linking to those urls
 * That makes sense to me. I have added them. Aoba47 (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * suggest adding hyphens to Hayes ISBN as they are available within the preview (Template:Cite book says they're optional but preferred)
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Steve Jones article you can get rid of the ProQuest formatting and just do page=D3 not D.03 or I.10 for Wehner
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Vanessa Jones article originally in The Boston Globe, but republished in the Sun-Sentinel. I'm not quite sure how to acknowledge this
 * I ended up replacing this source with a different one to avoid any unnecessary confusion. Aoba47 (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Spotchecks
 * "Slip-n-Slide and Atlantic released "No Panties" as the lead single from Diamond Princess on July 16, 2002." → everything supported by the sources cited
 * "Trina and Elliot are close friends" → supported
 * "who was one of Elliott's protégés" → supported
 * "For the UK and Europe, the 12-single included the song's" → what on the media notes indicates it was issued in the UK and Europe?
 * I will look into this further later tonight (or this weekend). It could be something to do with the catalog numbers, but I will do further research. Apologies for the delay on this. Aoba47 (talk) 13:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * For info, Discogs has listings for both the European vinyl and CD versions, but I don't know if that would be considered a reliable source.......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I initially got this information from Discogs. I do not know either vinyls, although I did seriously consider buying one on eBay. From my research, the catalog number included on the vinyl does distinguish the area it was release. Discogs has a nice article on it here. Also, when I look up images of the UK/Europe vinyl, it includes information about how it is released "for the world outside of the United States" (their phrasing not mine), and this is absent on the US vinyl. Aoba47 (talk) 13:42, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * As there is no clear evidence that the vinyl was specifically released in the UK/Europe, it might be better to go with a more general phrase like "another vinyl with an alternative tracklist including the bonus track "Get It" was also released". I'm also a bit confused as to why the track listing section only lists vinyls but there were CD/digital downloads released? Heartfox (talk) 17:34, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I will post the CD and digital download track listings later today. I am somewhat hesitant about doing the digital download as it is just the song and nothing else, but I will still do it as it would be helpful to have the complete information. I will go with the more general phrasing that you have suggested for the different releases. Apologies for not being able to get to it until later. Aoba47 (talk) 19:32, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I believe that I have addressed this now. Thank you again for the review. Aoba47 (talk) 23:06, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "it was one of only two entries Trina had on the chart; the second was "Here We Go" in 2006" → supported
 * "Retrospective articles have considered "No Panties" and its follow-up single "B R Right" the most commercially successful songs from Diamond Princess" → ok
 * "Dave Meyers directed the music video for "No Panties" in Los Angeles" → ok
 * "he Herald Sun's Cyclone Wehner described it as a "techno-hop romp" → supported
 * ""No Panties" is a two-minute, 42-second hip hop song" → Billboard gave 2:43
 * I have checked on Spotify and that platform also uses the 2:42 time. The 2:43 time seems to be the clean version so the Billboard review was likely using that one instead. Aoba47 (talk) 13:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "Steve Jones for USA Today noted that Trina "uses booty as currency to accumulate power and pleasure" throughout Diamond Princess" → supported
 * "The Scripps Howard News Service's Chuck Campbell viewed it as a "woman's manifesto" → supported
 * "including AllMusic critic Rovi Staff" → AllMusic was owned by Rovi Corporation; Rovi Staff is not a real person
 * Apologies for this. I actually had formatted this correctly in my first draft of the article, but I for whatever reason mistook Rovi Staff for a person later on in the process. I have revised it accordingly. Aoba47 (talk) 13:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "Chuck Campbell believed she was the perfect choice for the song" → supported
 * "In 2005, a writer for Spin jokingly included "No Panties" on a list of songs that "insist on giving way too much information"." → supported
 * " While negatively reviewing Diamond Princess, Slant Magazine's Sal Cinquemani dismissed "No Panties" as not "even remotely as erotic" as "Oops (Oh My)"" → supported

Heartfox (talk) 04:46, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your review! I greatly appreciate your help. I have addressed everything, but one point. I will do further research on how releases in UK/Europe are distinguished from the US ones. I am currently on a small vacation in DC, so it will take me a little longer than normal. Apologies for that. I will still do my best to look into it further. I hope you are having a great end to your week! Aoba47 (talk) 13:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have responded to the vinyl point as it was easier to find out than I had anticipated. Aoba47 (talk) 13:42, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

I would say this is a pass for the source review. I hope you are having a great vacation and best of luck with the rest of the nom! Heartfox (talk) 01:17, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I greatly appreciate your help. Aoba47 (talk) 02:27, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the ping. Just wanted to let you know I added the digital download track list to the track listings section. Apologies for forgetting to do this earlier. Aoba47 (talk) 02:58, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Comments on stuff other than sources

 * "by American rapper Trina, featuring American singer Tweet, from her second studio album" - not 100% clear who "her" refers to here
 * Good point since it could easily be misread as Tweet's album. Revised in the article and on here. Aoba47 (talk) 13:18, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "stated that explicit, hip hop tracks, such" - don't think those commas need to be there.....
 * Agreed. Removed. Aoba47 (talk) 13:18, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "the most "most salacious and sexually explicit" songs" - most most? :-)
 * I guess I thought it was the most of the most lol. Removed. Aoba47 (talk) 13:18, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Think that's it - great work overall! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:47, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your review! I believe that I have addressed everything, but please let me know if there is anything else I can do to further improve the article. I hope you have a great day! Aoba47 (talk) 13:18, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:11, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 18:28, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Comments Support from Pseud 14

 * "Missy Elliott contributed to two songs" --> contributed two songs
 * I can understand your suggestion, but I am somewhat uncertain. Elliott worked on the two songs with other people (like with this one she worked with a producer), and I would be concerned that "contributed two songs" could be read that she gave the songs to Trina after doing all the work on it separately or by herself. For my phrasing, I was just trying to convey that she was a part of two different songs from the album, although they were both in different ways. Aoba47 (talk) 01:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "including an AllMusic critic, Frank Pearn Jr. of The Morning Call, the Miami New Times's Ryan Pfeffer". --> and the Miami’s Times’s …
 * Yikes, that was an embarrassing oversight on my part lol. I have revised this part. Aoba47 (talk) 01:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * ”While” appears to have been excessively used in the critical reception section (e.g. ”While referencing”, “While reviewing”, “While negatively reviewing”, “While writing”), perhaps reword the others to avoid being redundant
 * That's a great point. I have revised the section, but please let me know if further revision would be beneficial. Aoba47 (talk) 01:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Alternately refer to “No Panties” as “the song” or “the single” in the music/lyrics and reception sections, as it seems to be heavily repeated.
 * Good point. I have revised this to address your point. Aoba47 (talk) 01:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * That's all I have. Great work as usual! Pseud 14 (talk) 22:26, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the kind words and for the review. I have addressed everything, except for one point, but I have left a comment about my concerns about it. Please let me know if there's anything I could do to further improve the article. Have a great week! Aoba47 (talk) 01:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Looks good. Support -- Pseud 14 (talk) 15:33, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the support! Aoba47 (talk) 17:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Withdrawal request
I would like withdraw this FAC. While I am very grateful for the reviewers who have helped to improve the article immensely, I would like to take a step back from Wikipedia to focus on other things. Thank you again, and I hope everyone has a great rest of their week! Aoba47 (talk) 04:39, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your work on this article, and I hope that you will be back here with it some day. Hog Farm Talk 04:45, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Hog Farm Talk 04:45, 25 November 2021 (UTC)