Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Nodar Kumaritashvili/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 21:59, 5 October 2017.

Nodar Kumaritashvili

 * Nominator(s): Kaiser matias (talk) 04:08, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

A break from ice hockey player nominations from me, this is about the Georgian luger who died on the eve of the 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics. It went through GA years ago, then I updated it a few months ago with some more information, and recently had it looked over at WP:COPYEDITORS. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:08, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Image review
 * File:Nodar_Kumaritashvili.jpg: suggest using non-free biog-pic
 * File:Nodar.png: who is claimed to be the copyright holder here? The video from which this is taken appears to be a derivative work, but other than the music the original source(s?) is unclear. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:23, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Changed the first image's status. In regards to Nodar.png, I removed it from the article. While I'm fairly certain it comes from an IOC video, I can not confirm it, and while the image is a key component to the story, it can be restored if/when the proper information is found. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:49, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 01:56, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Comments – Interesting story. I remembered his death, but had forgotten the story behind it. These are my comments after a full read-through:
 * Life and career: Minor point, but you might consider putting refs 8 and 6 in numerical order at the end of the sentence in which they both appear.
 * I have some bad news for you: it looks like the Vancouver2010.com references are dead. I tried looking at ref 16, to see if I could find the name of the Italian luger who died in 1975, and it redirected to the home page. You'll have to check the Internet Archive to see if they have copies of the pages (I count four of them cited here).
 * The last sentence of Accident and death is uncited; try moving the cite in the lead, which covers a similar sentence, and see if that will be adequate here.
 * Georgian response: "that it would consider skipping the opening ceremonies or withdraw from the games entirely". Should "withdraw" be "withdrawing" here?
 * For formality, the part that says "who was to compete with Nodar" should probably be using his last name.
 * Coroner's report: The November 13, 2009 date appears to be in different formatting than the others here. I'd imagine it should be DMY for consistency.
 * I'm not providing a full source review, but note that the publishers of refs 15, 19, 24, and 26 should be italicized, as they are all print publications. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 21:42, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That's unfortunate that the Vancouver2010.com site is gone. However a quick look suggests it shouldn't be too hard to find replacement sources, you'll just have to give me a day or two to have time to do so. Kaiser matias (talk) 09:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Addressed everything here. Kaiser matias (talk) 07:40, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support – I was waiting for Pbsouthwood's comment to be resolved. Now that it has been, I'm confident that this meets FA standards. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 21:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Comments - Pbsouthwood
 * Medics were at his side within seconds of the crash. Cardio-pulmonary resuscitation began within one minute, and a plastic breathing tube was inserted into his mouth. While not improbable in any way, this is not supported by any of the references in that paragraph. The description suggests this may have been added by someone who saw the accident on video, as the claim of within seconds, and within one minute and the layman's description of an airway as a plastic breathing tube inserted into the mouth all suggest information observed from a recording. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:29, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I took a try rewording it to be more accurate, but as I'm not familiar with medical terminology, if this is not accurate please let me know. Kaiser matias (talk) 08:34, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Ref 11 actually supports most of what you have there, except the airway. Airway is standard procedure with many emergency response organisations, but it is not mentioned in the sources specified. I do not see that it is very important to mention as the coroners report notes that standard procedures were followed although he was apparently beyond help. However ref 11 also appears to have a title ("Officials perform CPR after luger wrecks") which is not evident in the link, which is titled "Kumaritashvili killed in luge training". The date also differs between the linked article and the reference, so it is possible that the title also changed. Not sure what to do about that. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 11:43, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It does appear that ESPN has since changed the title and date of the article; I updated the reference here, and used it to remove the note about the airway, as you noted it isn't apparent in the other references. Instead I added that mouth-to-mouth was performed, as the ESPN article states. Kaiser matias (talk) 12:31, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks OK to me. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 21:44, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Sources review
No spotchecks carried out. The sources – mainly press accounts or official reports – seem reliable and appropriate, and references are consistently formatted. A few issues:
 * In the cases of refs 6, 25 and 29, the links do not go to the source article
 * Ref 10: the link goes to a different NYT report
 * Ref 28: The headline in the source article is differently worded.

Subject to these, sources are fine. Brianboulton (talk) 14:32, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Addressed everything here, they should all be fixed. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:35, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * All well now. Brianboulton (talk) 16:10, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Tony1

 * Luger ... rather than relying on diversion to the link target just as we start the article, I wonder whether a brief glossing inline is possible? Not easy, but perhaps start second para: "The luge is one- or two-person sled."
 * I modified it to note he was a one-man luger, which hopefully should be sufficient.
 * Not really. I'd never ever encountered the word. "... was a one-man luger (sled rider)"? Tony   (talk)  15:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)


 * "Outside of luge, Kumaritashvili had been a student at the Georgian Technical University, where he earned an economics degree in 2009." I levy huge fines for writing redundant "in order to" and "outside of". Would you like my bank account number? But why is the first phrase necessary in the first place?
 * Addressed


 * "The region Kumaritashvili grew up in"—why not "Borjomi"?
 * He was born in Borjomi, but grew up in nearby Bakuriani, which is where the ski hills are. This has now been clarified.


 * "after having taken 25 previous training runs"—is something redundant there?
 * I'm not quite sure what you're looking for here, but I think I addressed it.
 * You didn't. "... after 25 previous attempts, ...". Remove one word. Tony   (talk)  15:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)


 * "Early in morning of" ... um.
 * Fixed
 * No, "on", not "in". Tony   (talk)  15:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm stopping. My take is that the prose is not yet at featured standard. Tony  (talk)  09:46, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I've addressed everything here, and if you have more to comment on I'll gladly go over it, though as its been here at FAC for two months, so I'd prefer to have it sorted out quickly if possible. Kaiser matias (talk) 13:02, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Further comments: Any FAC nomination that lies here for two months suggests it was prematurely put forward. Reviewers should not be the port of call for copy-editing: that task should be more adequately performed before nomination. I hope your writing is improving—it needs to for FAC preparation. There are basic errors and a need to weed out redundant wording and to simplify the grammar where possible. Here are more, which indicate there's quite way to go just to edit normal articles well in English:
 * Remove three words from this (contextual redundancy ... the reader knows it already): "He lost control in the penultimate turn of the course and was thrown off his luge ...".
 * "Early on the morning of 17 February 2010, Kumaritashvili's body arrived in Tbilisi. It reached his hometown of Bakuriani later that day, and he was buried on Saturday, 20 February, at the church he attended."—we have the body called "it", and then suddenly it's personalised as a "he". Two commas can go. "he had attended". (Apparently praying to his god before the practice run was when a cruel joke played out.)
 * Generally, too many commas. This bump needs removing: "... Kumaritashvili family, at the request of the ..."

Everywhere I look there's something.

But there are some good things about the article. I don't want to dishearten you. Keep going, but DO concentrate on improving. Me, I'd have sunk this nomination six weeks ago, suggesting it be worked up properly with the assistance of copy-editors and resubmitted. Tony  (talk)  15:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay in responding, should have things dealt with in a day or two. If you have more to identify, please do so, as I'd rather get it sorted out now instead of go through the FAC process again. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Closing comment: Given Tony1's concerns, I am going to archive this FAC shortly. It has been open two months and has just the two supports, but I think there may be issues that need resolving away from FAC. I would recommend finding a copy-editor (I can recommend if she is available) to look at this before renominating. In any case, it cannot be renominated for the usual two-week waiting period. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:58, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Sarastro1 (talk) 21:59, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.