Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ontario Highway 403/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 12:45, 31 October 2014 (UTC).

Ontario Highway 403

 * Nominator(s):  Floydian  τ ¢  21:41, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

As part of my continued push towards a Featured Topic on Ontario's 400-series highways, I present Highway 403 - one of the first freeways planned for Ontario, but also one of the most disjointed and recently completed. This article just passed an A-Class review, so it should be relatively problem free. Cheers,  Floydian  τ ¢  21:41, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Image check - all OK
 * images have been thoroughly checked during ACR (thanks for that).
 * images are PD or CC "own work" or Canadian Crown Copyright and have source/author information - OK.
 * map information includes source data - OK.
 * (fixed one tiny, redundant commons category myself).

( Just fyi: the article talkpage still shows "initiate the nomination" in the FAC-template. Maybe it still needs updating (or something went wrong during the nomination) - resolved, slow bot). GermanJoe (talk) 22:05, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Since you three reviewed this at ACR, I'd appreciate your input to hopefully help move this nom along. -  Floydian  τ ¢  18:37, 17 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Support. When I reviewed the article at ACR, I was really impressed by the history section. Hopefully others feel the same way. –Fredddie™ 21:28, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Support - Based on my review at ACR, I feel that this article meets all the FA criteria.  Dough 48  72  00:28, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Support I suppose a bit pointless since independent review is what is still needed, but for avoidance of doubt. BTW, the ACR is here: WikiProject Highways/Assessment/A-Class Review/Ontario Highway 403. --Rschen7754 08:29, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Source review—I did not review this at ACR, but I see that this article could use a source review, so here it is. Several of the comments below are more suggestions to consider than actual issues. (Note: a spotcheck was done at ACR as is required of newer promotions there.)
 * FN1: this is listed in full below the footnotes. Should this footnote be shortened? Also, I wouldn't capitalize "and" in the title; that's one of those words that is normally in lowercase in title case unless it is the first word.
 * I just shortened this one, linking it to the full citation below, which I tweaked for formatting.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN5: I'd swap the hyphen in the Google Maps title to a colon to match the usual convention on titles and subtitles. This suggestion would also apply to other examples where a title and subtitle are separated by a hyphen or dash instead of a colon.
 * I took care of this as well.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN6, etc: I'd drop the volume and issue number. Those are normally not necessary to locate a newspaper since the date there is the important part. Also, the cite news template doesn't put the volume and issue number with the page number, unlike cite journal, so that information is oddly separated.
 * I took care of this as well.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN7: the News isn't needed with a full page number, and it appears the template is treating that as a section of an article, not the section of the newspaper. (For regular sections of a paper, there is department instead.) This would also apply to FN17 and others.
 * I took care of this as well.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN10: is a dead link. Fortunately, it's in the Wayback Machine at . Additionally, I would make sure to add that it was printed on pages 26 and 31, which are the page numbers printed on the pages where it appears. (Page numbers from the PDF file's pagination don't help readers looking for an offline copy.)
 * I took care of this as well.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN12: it would help if this were wikilinked to the location of the full citation. I've found harvnb and harv to be very useful in that regard. (I don't use sfn because that omits the reference tags. havnb gets placed within the tags, and then it will appear along with the other references when I use either of the scripts that segregates an article's references in the edit window.)
 * I took care of this as well.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN13: in cite journal, I think you should use Proceedings of the... Convention and Ontario, and maybe you should spell out the full title of Proceedings of the  Convention.
 * FN16: full citation please?
 * My guess is that it is --Rschen7754 05:15, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN 27 is also similarly shortened without a fully expanded citation. Unfortunately, that one is even more vague than FN 16, I've left both of these for now.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FN62: I wouldn't use cite journal for this one. Instead, I'd use cite book, and then vol. 1. When additional text like that is passed in to the volume parameter, it drops the boldface and just makes it clear that it is a volume number being referenced. For whatever reason, in this case, is separating the volume and page number, so the clue that the bolded number next to another one is absent.
 * Done. --Rschen7754 05:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The good news is that all of the sources used pass the sniff test for reliability (official government documents, articles from reputable newspapers, maps from recognizable cartographers), so in my opinion, it's just a matter of a little polish on formatting to make this good article better.  Imzadi 1979  →   21:29, 18 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Support, as everything seems mostly in order, with acknowledgement of the issues Imzadi noted above. It seems that the nominator has taken off for several weeks, so I'm not sure what that means for this nomination. Maybe someone else from the road project can make the adjustments? The only thing that struck me as odd in the writing, and maybe this is normal for road articles, is the free use of "freeway" as a synonym for "highway". It first made me retrace my steps to see if some other road had been mentioned that was being referred to as "the freeway" while Highway 403 was being called "the highway". Failing that, I went off on an expedition to discover that the terms are interchangeable, which I never knew. I always thought of them as regional variances of the same concept, not necessarily words that you switch around to refer to the same thing. I'm not really asking for it to be changed, but maybe someone can explain the editorial rationale. -- Laser brain  (talk)  00:12, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I am willing to step in if needed for some of the minor issues (please drop me a note if I forget). --Rschen7754 01:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * In regards to your question, "freeway" and "highway" are not necessarily interchangeable, but in this case both are applicable, as Ontario Highway 403 is a freeway, and a (provincial) highway. --Rschen7754 05:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Since Floydian is temporarily unavailable, I've also done the remaining minor formatting fixes above. Pretty much, all that's left is the full citations for footnotes 16 and 27. That leaves a question I have about the shortened footnotes in general. FN 25 is the only footnote to that citation. The same goes for FN 26. If this were my article, I'd expand those two footnotes to be the full citation because they are not repeated. Assuming we also found the full citations for FN 16 and 27, that means only one source is left shortened, for FN 1 and 14. I don't think it would be bad to repeat that citation only twice in the footnotes, so if this were my article I were working on, I'd just do away with shortening any footnotes.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I think we can leave any such tweaks to post-FAC, so will promote shortly -- tks all. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:44, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 12:45, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
 * I know, no further edits, but I just wanted to leave a note of thanks for my fellow editors for making the necessary adjustments in my absence. Drop a note on the article talk page if there are any further issues and I'll try to fix them within a few days. -  Floydian  τ ¢  20:05, 2 November 2014 (UTC)