Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Oriental Film/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via MilHistBot (talk) 03:19, 21 September 2014 (UTC).

Oriental Film

 * Nominator(s): — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

This article is about a fairly unproductive film corporation, even for the 1940s Dutch East Indies, but one which spent money as if it were going out of style. Oriental was only open for a little over a year, but it brought Fifi Young and her husband Njoo Cheong Seng to film, and helped a few prominent stage actors/singers start their film careers. This has had a great GA review by Seattle and a non-formal PR by SchroCat. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Image check - all OK.
 * Images are PD in Indonesia and the US. Sufficient source information (authors mostly unknown). GermanJoe (talk) 21:14, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the image review. Glad to see you're back at FAC! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:26, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * Some of the Filmografi cites have locations, others don't
 * Some of the books have locations, others don't. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:19, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe I've gotten them all. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:05, 1 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Support All good from me - just one very minor tweak, which I think I'm right in doing - please feel free to undo if it's an error. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 12:16, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review, both before the nomination and now. :) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:09, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Support Review from Cliftonian

Lead
 * Why not put the wikilink on Batavia rather than Jakarta?
 * Dhalia? What an excellent name.

Establishment
 * "the film industry of the Dutch East Indies – which had been severely weakened by the Great Depression" recommend rewording to "the Dutch East Indies film industry", as the present wording could be understood as saying the Indies in general had been severely weakened, but I think we mean the industry specifically
 * Correct. Fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, I would personally put the link on Batavia, piped, and then say now Jakarta. (this is what I do in the similar case of Salisbury/Harare)
 * Fair enough. Done on both occurrences — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * We use "brought on" twice in close succession. Recommend redrawing
 * One "brought on" is now "hired". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Productions
 * Why would the noblewoman's parents disapprove of her marrying the nobleman?
 * That's embarrassing; I seem to have written the wrong word. He was a commoner. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "Oriental constructed its sets" not sure we need "its" here
 * Good point. Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "her two daughters" not sure we need "her" here, clear from context
 * Agree, contextually it's clear. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Closure and legacy
 * Looks good to me.

Infobox
 * Not sure we need to say "fate: dissolved" as directly below we have "defunct: 1941". Perhaps merge the two under one or the other.
 * Don't need to link the Dutch East Indies thrice.
 * Not sure we need to say both that it was a film company and that its products were motion pictures.
 * All done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Well done and engaging. Good job. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  13:08, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you right kindly for the review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * No problem at all. Supporting above. Well done! —  Cliftonian   (talk)  13:41, 14 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Support, one comment I'm happy to support this. I wonder about the use of the term "lower class" throughout the article; "working class" or "low-income" would be less value-loaded Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:35, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * In the Indies, the "upper" class (the nobility, or priyayi) generally ended up working as well... in administration, or in other areas which required an education. Also, the original "kelas bawah" doesn't carry the negative connotations and value judgments as "lower class" (or, even worse, low class). However, low-income would probably be a reasonable compromise, and has been included here. Thanks for reviewing! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:46, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Just a handful of minor points - these are suggestions for the most part, so you have my Support whether you choose to implement them or not:
 * "For the film, a love story set in Timor starring Young as the title character, Oriental used bright, extravagant costumes, Njoo gave the characters whimsical names which would not be found in the setting" Second clause should be separated by "and" or a semicolon.
 * Good point; what a mess! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "Rather than shoot on location – which would have been prohibitively expensive – Oriental constructed sets behind the ANIF Studio" and other similar sentences: maybe use instead of  ?
 * Does it have a benefit besides being (marginally) easier to read? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * "Both women, teenagers at the time, had previously established stage careers..." It's not clear here whether their stage careers were previously established, or they had previously gone through the process of establishing stage careers. Doesn't make much difference to the meaning of the sentence, but it's a bit unwieldy.
 * Perhaps nixing "previously" would work. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Overall, very interesting article - thanks for the read! Yunshui 雲 水 09:18, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "After Pantjawarna, Fred Young drew Njoo and his wife to the newly established Majestic Film" - worth a redlink to Majestic Film?
 * Done. Majestic has several films with articles, so I think it is probably notable enough for an article. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "The films targeted low-income audiences and extensively used kroncong music, for the recording of which the company established the Oriental Novelty Five." Oriental Novelty Five? Or perhaps a few more sentences of information about them somewhere in the article?
 * Haven't been able to find much on the group so far, sadly. Documentation is a bit sparse. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "Fifi Young, who continued acting for Njoo until their divorce in 1945, appearing in more than eighty films before her death in 1975." Surely, "appeared in more than eighty films"?
 * Right. Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * No, thank you for reviewing! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 10:45, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.