Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ormond Beatty/archive1

Ormond Beatty

 * Nominator(s): PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 00:57, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

The seventh president of Kentucky's Centre College (and the third such president to be the subject of an article I have brought to FAC), Ormond Beatty was impactful to Centre throughout his entire life. He was an alum, class of 1835, and got offered a job to teach there before he'd even graduated (after three years, no less). After studying at Yale for a year, he began teaching at Centre in 1836 and continued for the next thirty-two years. He was president pro tem for two years and then unanimously elected to the full job, which he kept for the next 18. After resigning, he went right back to teaching and died in Danville two years later. He also went to numerous Presbyterian General Assemblies, was a trustee for the Kentucky College for Women, and was a Smithsonian climate observer, among other things. This article is a little on the shorter side but I believe it covers the subject comprehensively, and I would be grateful for any and all feedback I can get! PCN02WPS ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 00:57, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Image review

 * File:Ormond_Beatty_in_1880.jpg: when and where was this first published and what is the author's date of death?


 * File:Ormond_Beatty_1855.jpg: when and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Nikkimaria I changed the 1880 license to the same as the 1855 photo (though the photographer died in 1919), though neither are listed with dates or locations of publication. Should these images be replaced? PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:15, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Both currently include a tag indicating they were published before 1928. Can that be confirmed? If no, what is the earliest publication that can be confirmed? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nikkimaria I don't think that I'll be able to find that information as I have no idea where or when (or if) they were first published, only the years that they were taken. As a result I've removed the 1855 one altogether and replaced the 1880 one with an engraving that was published in 1890 in the General Catalogue of the Centre College of Kentucky (see here for information and here (page 24 on the viewer) for the source material. If I end up finding publication info I might put the old ones back in but I'm perfectly satisfied with this image for now. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:57, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Comments

 * "the fourth of five sons of Adam Beatty and Sarah Green" - were his parents not married? Or were they Adam Beatty and his wife Sarah (nee Green)......?
 * "...which began in 1870[2][16] and was dedicated on June 26, 1872" - subject seems to change from the construction of the building to the building itself
 * "Sarah Lewis Rochester, a relative of Nathaniel Rochester" - maybe Americans, or people from Kentucky specifically, know who Nathaniel Rochester was, but I personally have no idea, so could you put a qualifier before his name to indicate who he was/what he was known for.....?
 * "He was still a member of the Centre faculty at the time, having taught for two years after his resignation as president until his death" - given that we already know this paragraph is talking about his death, the last three words are redundant
 * Think that's all I got - nice work! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:27, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @ChrisTheDude Thank you for the review, all comments have been taken care of! PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 16:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Harrias
Overall a nice little article. Harrias (he/him) • talk 13:48, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Says who? Attribute this quote inline.
 * Added attribution, though all I have of the authors are first initials and last names, so I have them listed as "Yerkes, Hays, and Blayney" as of now. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * According to the article, he returned to Centre in 1836, spent nine years in a position, and then in 1847 (eleven years after returning) switched to teaching mathematics. Is it possible to address this mismatch?
 * No clue where I got nine from, but I removed this anyway as part of trimming down this sentence. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:29, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Generally, the sentence which starts is too long and tries to do too much; split it.
 * Got rid of the first part (see above) and broke the sentence up. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:29, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Per the MOS, for comparable numbers they should either both be numbers, or both be written out, not a mix. (Recommend switching 12 to twelve.)
 * Done as recommended. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:29, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * What does this mean? He went for a day trip there? He studied there? He lectured there? Was Lincoln president at the time?
 * I am not sure - this is the source quote: "In 1863 he was appointed by President Lincoln one of the visitors to the Military Academy at West Point." I haven't found anything that expanded on what he actually did while he was there. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:29, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Per the MOS, foreign-language text shouldn't use markup for achieve italics, but should use a relevant template.
 * I didn't know that existed, thanks for bringing that to my attention. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:29, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean a religious minister, but it is an ambiguous term, so please clarify.
 * Didn't consider that - clarified with "Christian minister" and linked to Minister (Christianity). PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, provide inline attribution.
 * Added mention of Yerkes, Hays, and Blayney. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think having this as a one sentence paragraph gives it undue precedence; I'd recommend blending it into one of the other paragraphs.
 * Added to the end of the first paragraph. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:29, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * More inline attribution needed.
 * Realized that I used more quotes than usual so I changed the wording of this to remove the direct quote. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Harrias Thank you for the kind words and the review - all of your comments have been taken care of or responded to above! PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:42, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Harrias Just a courtesy ping if you get the chance to take another look at this at your nearest convenience! PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 16:43, 5 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry, not been around. Happy to give this my support, nice work. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 10:38, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Comments from Golden
I have no further suggestions. The article was a pleasant read and is in excellent shape. Great job! — Golden  talk 22:33, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * "Beatty involved himself" - I think the flow would improve if we wrote "Beatty also involved himself" since we've only discussed his educational work so far.
 * "This did not happen for some time, but William C. Young, son of former President John C. Young, was elected on June 19, 1888, to fill the role." - For some reason, this sentence does not flow well for me. I think it's because it doesn't connect well with the previous sentence. I suggest changing it to something like: "Although the process was protracted, William C. Young, son of former President John C. Young, was ultimately elected on June 19, 1888, to fill the role."
 * "prevent him from retiring from the college altogether" - Can we elaborate on this a little more? Why were they so determined to retain him at the college in any capacity? Was he truly that good of a professor/president/individual?
 * "Rochester, New York, founder" - Is the second comma supposed to be there? Also, I suggest changing it to "founder of Rochester, New York".
 * Thank you for the review! The first two points have been changed exactly as recommended (and I learned the meaning of the word "protracted"!). The third comment is a good question, and there really isn't a whole lot of reason given beyond what you guessed; the most detailed source quote I could find was this (FN 22 in that part of the article): "But the Trustees were unwilling that the institution should lose altogether the name and influence, the instructions and counsels, the fatherly concern and loving care of one who had been so long and so honorably identified with its history, and who had spared neither himself, nor his time, nor his money, in its behalf." I wasn't sure how to summarize this other than by saying that they didn't want him to leave, but I am very open to suggestions. I followed your suggestion in the fourth comment, though the comma has to stay as per MOS:GEOCOMMA. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:08, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for making the changes. Regarding the third point, perhaps we could include that quote or at least a portion of it? I believe it offers sufficient context to the sentence. —  Golden  talk 19:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Golden I tried to paraphrase that as best I could and add it - does that sound alright to you? PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 16:00, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That looks great, PCN02WPS. Happy to support. —  Golden  talk 16:02, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Source review
No spotcheck needed; looking at formatting/reliability. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC) , all done, very nice work on consistency! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Refs 9 and 10 are dead- also, is "Kentucky Climate Center" reliable? My computer showed a "website unsafe" wall before I continued (yes, probably not the best idea, but still, committed to the review)
 * I have marked those two as dead, and I'm not sure why the website is showing as unsafe - the Kentucky Climate Center is an official department of the state government and is hosted at Western Kentucky University (see here for their "About" page)
 * Wikilinking of citation publishers/works/websites is inconsistent (e.g. "Centre College" is linked in ref 16 but not ref 2)
 * Fixed. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 18:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ref 30 should have "subscription" in the access parameter
 * Added. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 18:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Collins and Collins 1874 has no location of publication or OCLC, but the others do
 * OCLC has been added, but there is no publication location listed in the source. There is a reprinting location, but no original publication location from what I can see. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 18:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @PCN02WPS, the WorldCat profile had the original location- I went ahead and added it. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:02, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Why are only some of the locations of publication linked but others aren't? This applies to the "Citations" section and the "Bibliography" section
 * Linked all. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 18:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look, everything has been fixed or responded to! PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 18:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support - by the way, if you get some time, I'd appreciate comments at this FAC. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:03, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @MyCatIsAChonk I like that segment a lot, so I'd be happy to give that a look! PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 15:52, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Appleton: the OCLC is 957128738. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gog the Mild Added - thank you! PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 12:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 13:01, 19 September 2023 (UTC)