Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pacific Swift/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:Ian Rose 10:01, 24 August 2013 (UTC).

Pacific Swift

 * Nominator(s):  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  08:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Since these swifts are constantly in flight, even when asleep, the 160-mile drive and three-mile walk to see one of these in Suffolk was a bit nerve-wracking. However, despite the fuss, I parked nicely, saw the bird and didn't get arrested. This is a short FAC because it's nothing like as well studied as its American or European relatives.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  08:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Looks good. Some thoughts-
 * The opening line doesn't quite grab the reader as much as I'd hope- do we need to jump straight into taxonomic controversies?
 * Rejigged, is it better?  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "The two or three white eggs are incubated for about 17 days to hatching, the chicks then having a long and variable period in the nest before they are fully fledged." How about "The two or three white eggs are incubated for about 17 days to hatching. Subsequently, the chicks have a long but variable period in the nest before they are fully fledged."?
 * Amended as suggested  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "Like all swifts, Pacific feeds" How about "Like all members of its family, the Pacific Swift..."
 * Amended as suggested  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't really like the way you refer to it as "Pacific", rather than "the Pacific Swift". Is this something done regularly in the sources?
 * Mainly done to reduce repetitions of "swift", all written in full now  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:22, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Check your punctuation in the paragraph on parasites.
 * Aaaargh!. How did I miss those? Done  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "Its population is unknown, and but it is" Needs cleaning
 * Or that... done.  Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "The Common Swift, a close relative of Pacific, has been recorded as reaching 21 years old.[29]" So we can assume these live to about the same age? Or would that be original research?
 * I can't find a maximum age for the Pacific Swift, but the claim of longevity for the family as a whole is sourced and the Common Swift data is to illustrate that. It would be a reasonable assumption that one of the Common Swift's closest relatives might live to a similar age, but obviously I can't say that. If you think that even the implication is OR, I'll take it out, but I think it's better to give the information rather than omit it <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Generally strong. I made a few tweaks. J Milburn (talk) 14:02, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments and tweaks, all done now I think <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Support, assuming the source check comes back OK. I'm happy. I will, however, keep an eye on this page in case I missed something! J Milburn (talk) 09:51, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments from Crisco 1492
 * huge breeding area - is "huge" encyclopedic?
 * I think several million square miles could reasonably be described as a huge area. I can't see an obvious alternative other than "very large" but I already have "large" in the sentence. Massive is worse than huge. Any thoughts? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Extensive? J Milburn (talk) 10:52, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 4 August 2013 (UTC)


 * (15 mm against the nominate form's 20 mm) - Worth including conversions?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * on the wintering grounds, - on or in?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Pacific Swift can be distinguished with care by its deeper tail fork, - Feels like you're missing a definite article
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Orchid Island - missing a definite article?
 * I don't understand why it should be the Orchid Island. I wouldn't say "the Japan" or "the Taiwan", so I'm not sure why this is different <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * D'oh, stet. I thought I saw Islands, my bad. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:00, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * There are 13 European records as of 2013, from Denmark (two), Spain, Sweden (four) and the UK (seven). It is possible that this overstates the true number of visiting birds due to wandering or returning individuals; all the listed countries had a sighting on different dates in summer 2013, and the four English records since 2005 all involved birds that were seen at least at Spurn, East Yorkshire. - How many of these sightings were in 2013, and how many of that list was from 2013? I'm confused here.
 * expanded to clarify <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * bees, wasps, termites and moths. - What's with the odd termite out?
 * Just thought it might be less familiar, now unlinked <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Any other information available, perhaps something about their saliva which allows it to act as glue? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:02, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * This is pretty well all I could find, including locating a secondary source for material in Chinese and behind a pay wall. The Common Swift and the NAm species are well-studied, but not their Asian relatives. I looked for more on saliva, but it just seems to be stated as a fact that it is used as a cement. There is a bit more for the Edible-nest Swiftlet, whose whole nest is made of saliva, but mainly as a means of detecting additives. These are in a different species, so nothing transferable <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:12, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Images all look okay, although I wish we had some solid pictures. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:06, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Me too, I could only find one, but another user got a Flickr user to release the other two <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Support on prose and images. Very good, easy read, easy to access. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:06, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review and support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:17, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments from Cwmhiraeth. Another solid-looking article, - just a few comments on the prose:
 * "The Pacific Swift (Apus pacificus) is a swift which breeds in eastern Asia." - I know it's difficult, but can you avoid saying a swift is a swift?
 * I've move the first occurrence of "swift" to the next sentence <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It has occurred as far afield as the US and New Zealand" - as you have said it winters in Australia, it doesn't seem particularly surprising that it has been seen in New Zealand.
 * Far fewer migrants reach NZ; it's not only about 1400 miles mainland to mainland, but, more importantly, there is no long chain of islands to link the two, whereas Indonesia connects SE Asia to Australia. Even powerful migrants like the large swifts rarely make the jump. I'd rather keep the phrase unless you strongly object. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. New Zealand is only a few centimetres from Australia on my map! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:29, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "... the Common Swift, from which it is distinguished by a white rump band and scaly underparts." - It doesn't really have scaly underparts, only the appearance of scales.
 * "heavily marked" since details follow in description <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "The White-rumped Swift is the most similar to Pacific Swift, but its slender body and long, deeply forked tail make it appear quite different from its powerfully built relative" - I would add the word "more" to this sentence and I think the first part is awkwardly phrased.
 * removed "the most", added "more" <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "... larger white throat patch and scaly underparts" - Scaly underparts again!
 * "patterned" this time <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "They are softer and less wheezy than for Common Swift" - This sentence seems awkward.
 * Rephrased <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * In the second paragraph of "Breeding", are you referring to swifts in general or this particular species?
 * Clarified that it's all swifts, this is background for the fledging times of Pacific <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * You mention nine biological orders, but can you be more specific on the prey insects?
 * I can only read the abstract. The main article is in Chinese and behind a Chinese-language pay wall, so I don't know any more than that. Should I remove this sentence? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "a wide variety of insect prey" would be an acceptable alternative, I would have thought. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:29, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  09:51, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "... although in Australia introduced cats may take some birds." - This seems a curious remark.
 * Yes, gone <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "... but the high survival rates mean that swifts are generally long-lived." - seems a non-sequiter (if I have spelt that right) to me!
 * I'm not sure that it is a non-sequitur, since if you survive you are likely to live longer, but rephrased to avoid causality anyway now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Otherwise, very nice. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments, all done now I think <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:59, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Now Supporting this article's candidacy. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:21, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:46, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments by Aa77zz
 * I find the explanation of the range map a little confusing. What is meant by Winter visitor in Australia? Is this the northern hemisphere winter or the southern hemisphere winter?
 * Changed to breeding/non-breeding visitor in legend <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:02, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Aa77zz (talk) 12:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The authority is given as Latham 1802. It should be 1801 - see original publication cited in article (or HBW).
 * I wasn't sure which was correct, fixed in taxobox and text now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:02, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:02, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

More comments
 * Taxonomy: A. salimalii should be A. salimali.
 * Fixed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  18:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Range map: I have difficulty with the dark green area labelled "Range of resident former subspecies"? Which former subspecies (singular or plural)? I cannot access Leader (2011). My guess is A. leuconyx and A. salimali but I'm a little surprised that they are resident - it gets cold in winter in Nepal and on the Tibetan Plateau. HBW has a very similar map with a green area but also includes a yellow summer visitor area in southern India. The HBW text indicates A. p. leuconyx winters in India (as does Clements) but A. salimali isn't mentioned. The Clements Checklist update states that the winter range for A. salimali isn't known. Perhaps the article should either provide more info in the key or not include the dark green area.
 * changed to breeding range for the three ssp. The yellow in HBW and Chantler I've omitted since it's not pacificus and the winter ranges of the former ssp are either unknown or close to the breeding areas, so would only add an extra layer of complexity. The dark green was in the original map (not created by me) and it seemed easier to leave it than guess where pacificus breeding range ended in the south. Leader sent by email <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  18:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Range map key: More precise but more clumsy would be: "Breeding visitor during northern hemisphere summer" and " Non-breeding visitor during northern hemisphere winter". Aa77zz (talk) 16:50, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * After a former reviewer objected to the original summer/winter being northern hemi-centric, I considered that version, but it's clunky, and I prefer the current version which is actually accurate if uninspiring <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  18:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Support - This is an excellent article that fully meets the FA criteria. Aa77zz (talk) 18:25, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for review, support and kind words <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  18:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Delegate comment -- Did I miss a source review above? If so, rub my nose in it; if not, pls place a request at WT:FAC, or perhaps one of the earlier reviewers would be kind enough... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:32, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The sources all appear to be suitably reliable and there are no obvious formatting problems. Aa77zz (talk) 08:15, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for source review <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:39, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 06:47, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.