Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pengkhianatan G30S/PKI/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:Ian Rose 10:04, 16 September 2013 (UTC).

Pengkhianatan G30S/PKI

 * Nominator(s): — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because it is an in-depth look at a significant piece of propagandic material used by the New Order, one which helped shape the views of millions of schoolchildren over 13 years. Pengkhianatan G30S/PKI (admittedly much more recent than my last seven FACs) is a four-hour marathon depicting the rise and fall of the 30 September Movement, with a half hour dedicated exclusively to seven murders. It was compulsory viewing for much of the 80s and 90s, and broadcast yearly on Indonesian TV channels to, shall we say, remind the populace why the New Order and President Suharto were truly for the nation. I think this will be interesting reading, and I'm fairly certain that the prose is up to snuff. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments from Cassianto
 * Background
 * Should we link "coup" on its first mention?
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "...and killed six Army generals" -- Should we use a capitalisation of "Army" here?
 * It's being used as an abbreviated proper noun (i.e. it means "Indonesian Army" and not any army) so I'm leaning towards keeping it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. --  Cassianto Talk   05:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Production
 * "... the military historian Nugroho Notosusanto and investigator Ismail Saleh... ." The definate article works well with Notosusanto, and would be better repeated for Saleh IMO.
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "...about the coup, detailed the coup as... ." -- Repetition of "the coup"
 * Tried reworking. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Themes
 * Why do we repeat reference [29] twice at the end of the section? Surely the last one would cover both adequately?
 * Per WP:CITE ("Sources are also required when quoting someone, with or without quotation marks, or closely paraphrasing a source."), which I've interpreted as meaning I need a footnote at the end of each sentence with a quote. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. --  Cassianto Talk   05:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Release
 * "During the remainder of the 1980s and early 1990s the film's historical accuracy..." -- New paragraph should carry the article title upon first mention. It would also banish the repetition of "the film" a few words along.
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "In September 1998, four months after the fall of Suharto, Information Minister Yunus Yosfiah..." -- Definite article here.
 * Standardise with above. Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * " The magazine stated that Basarah had called Education Minister Juwono Sudarsono" -- Again here?
 * Again here. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Everything else looks very good. I enjoyed that! --  Cassianto Talk   22:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Legacy
 * "...although the director remained publicly ambivalent about it until his death in 1995." -- Why, did he change his mind before he died, or did he die ambivalent about it? This is a little ambiguous.
 * He died publicly ambivalent about it. Thoughts on rewording? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * How about swapping the ending for the start: "the director died in 1995 feeling publicly ambivalent about it."? --  Cassianto Talk   05:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, let's try that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:25, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "Director Monty Tiwa..." -- Definate article?
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Support – and thank you for a very good article. --  Cassianto Talk   16:10, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * And thank you for the review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:35, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments - Dank (push to talk)
 * "propagandic": not found in oxforddictionaries.com or the Cambridge Dictionaries.
 * Removed all instances


 * Words with the "propaganda" root are repeated too often in the lead.
 * Only one left.


 * "Colonel Lieutenant-Colonel": just Lieutenant-Colonel
 * Good catch. Removed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:29, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "by the President,": I'm fine with this. Some will insist on lowercasing, and that's fine too, but I find that it's a losing battle in cases where the uppercasing is meant as a sign of respect. Modern style guides don't generally support the uppercasing, but Chicago sees your point, and my sense of the discussions on Wikipedia is that the fight isn't worth it.
 * Thanks for the heads up. We'll see what happens at this FAC. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:29, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "President Sukarno (Umar Kayam) is ill and may die, while his political concept of Nasakom (nationalism, religion, and communism) has promoted an explosive growth in the PKI.": "while" usually means either "whereas" or "at the same time as"; neither meaning works here. (Happy to discuss this one.)
 * Changed to "meanwhile
 * "accept the leadership's explanation and works to compile": nonparallel - Dank (push to talk) 01:34, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Reworked.
 * "After the fall of Suharto in 1998, the film has seen reduced use.": Since the ...
 * Right. done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "and, with ... work to compile the Party's forces": comma before "work" (since there's now a comma after "and"), and "compile" is the wrong word here.
 * Done and done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "They plan to launch a three pronged assault by kidnapping seven generals ..., overtake the city, and secure Sukarno.": They plan to kidnap seven generals ..., take over the city, and safeguard Sukarno.
 * Made parallel. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * So far so good, per standard disclaimer, down to where I stopped, the first paragraph of Pengkhianatan_G30S/PKI. - Dank (push to talk) 12:56, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad you're enjoying this. Thanks for the review so far! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

 Comments from SchroCat

The following are merely suggestions, so take on board or ignore as you see fit. I've made a few small edits: feel free to revert if you don't like them.

Lead
 * "preempt": depends what variety of English this is in. If it's BrEng, then it's pre-empt. US is "preempt", and I have no idea about the other versions used in SingEng, AusEng, IndEng etc!
 * Sure, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:24, 24 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "the film has seen reduced use": seems odd to "use" a film, but I know where you're coming from. Would "reduced viewings" work, or are you thinking "use" as method of propaganda?
 * Propaganda. Reworked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:24, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Think you may need to re-tweak this as it now reads: "such of the film has become less common"
 * D'oh. I remember typing it. Oh well. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:47, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Production
 * "multiple-Citra Award winning director": link to Citra Award for Best Director?
 * Sure, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:24, 24 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "was written based on a 1968 book": written is superfluous, I think
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:24, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Only those few bits from me: very nice article indeed. - SchroCat (talk) 19:07, 23 August 2013 (UTC) Support: all happy with this and glad to put my name to a support. - SchroCat (talk) 15:52, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:24, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:58, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Support Because this article is Indonesia theme, I say support, I like this!Hanamanteo (talk) 14:58, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Image check - all OK (fair-use for identification, tweaked PD-USGov-DOD, CC German Federal Archive). Sources and authors provided. Two nitpicks:
 * File:Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F010714-0051,_Bonn,_Empfang_Verteidigungsminister_von_Indonesien_crop.jpg - caption "Abdul Haris Nasution is depicted as escaping the coup attempt over a wall.". He is depicted at a gala dinner in Germany, what's the connection with his escape?
 * None, the focus is on "this is Nasution". Our other pictures of him were pretty bad when I wrote this, but apparently we have this now (which is a very nice find) so I've changed the image (and the caption).. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:38, 25 August 2013 (UTC)


 * File:Pengkhianatan_G_30_S-PKI.jpg - no deal-breaker, but is it possible to add a "real" non-Wiki source here, maybe a PR-site from the producer? Or is that a scan from the original uploader? GermanJoe (talk) 20:38, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * As the underlying source is obviously the VCD cover itself, rather than any photographer, the person who created the scan does not affect its copyright. As such, I don't think we need a different source. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:07, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Re: Producer's website: This article says that the company is essentially dead in the water and may face liquidation. No sort of "official website" — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:58, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Both points updated, thanks. The cover scan is clear enough (was only a "nice to have" point). GermanJoe (talk) 07:40, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the image review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:06, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim Just a few nitpicks  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  16:01, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Suharto's—very minor this, and you can ignore it. I prefer to link as Suharto's to avoid the colour change
 * I think I'll keep it black, if only because the next term is also linked (thus, to avoid WP:SEAOFBLUE). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:34, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The Thirtieth of September Movement abbreviated as G30S —why is the abbreviation half Indonesian Gerakan and half English September?
 * Do you mean why is it Gerakan 30 September and not something else? September is Indonesian for September (via Dutch). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:34, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * In the linked article, it gives the alternative  Gestok, for Gerakan 1 October, First of October Movement —why the confusion about the date?
 * The night of 30 September–1 October, bordering midnight; I'm fairly certain that's why both terms have popped. Here I've used G30S the whole time as that's the term the film uses, although I could add a bit about Gestok/Gerakan Satu Oktober to a footnote.
 * Kayam and Katamsi retook their roles for the latter film, —"reprised" seems more natural
 * You're right, changed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:34, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * its version of the 1965 events was the only allowed in open discourse. —word missing?
 * D'oh! Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:34, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * chatboard—I'd expect either chatroom or message board, is this a real word?
 * Double checked source; it's supposed to be mailing list, so changed.


 * Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:34, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Somehow I hadn't expected September to be the same in Indonesian!. Very nice article, supporting above now  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:01, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries! They are all very similar, but only April, September, and (in the formal orthography) November are the exact same (a variant spelling is Nopember, as many Indonesians have trouble pronouncing "f" or "v"). Thanks again for the review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:10, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * Source for running time?
 * My copy here. This gives the same length — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Foreign-language sources should be identified as such - eg Barker
 * Done, only one instance. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Why does Film come before Fathiyah?
 * Because I ended up with "dolt" before "Crisco". Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Location for Ricklefs?
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Check location formatting for Sen 1994
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Cite error message on Vickers. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:41, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I really hate "displayeditors". Should never have been added. (Done). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the source review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * All done. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:29, 10 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Support Meets criteria. Disclaimer: did the GA review of this article.--Dwaipayan (talk) 22:11, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks (again!) for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:11, 4 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Delegates, is there anything missing? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:49, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 16:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.