Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pennsylvania State Capitol/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 18:51, 3 November 2009.

Pennsylvania State Capitol

 * Nominator(s): ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel its up to the FAC criteria. It loosely follows the model of the two other FA state capitol, Michigan and Oregon. It was peer reviewed by Ruhrfisch, Finetooth and Ctjf83. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:34, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Support Comments (Ruhrfisch) As noted I peer reviewed this and think it is very close to FA. Here are some nitpicky comments / questions.
 * Should the word "located" be in the first sentence (is it really needed, or could it be omitted) The Pennsylvania State Capitol is the seat of government for the U.S. state of Pennsylvania and is located in downtown Harrisburg.
 * Removed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would "in" read better here than "using"? The current capitol was designed in 1902, using [in?] a Beaux-Arts style with Renaissance themes throughout.
 * Changed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * This seems a bit awkward After its completion, the capitol was the site of a graft scandal when it was discovered that the construction and subsequent furnishing cost three times more than the General Assembly had appropriated. Would something like After its completion, the capitol became the subject of a graft scandal when it was discovered that the construction ... read better?
 * Changed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would this read better as something like [In 1799] Eventually the legislature voted to move the capital, in 1799, to Lancaster instead of Harrisburg, because of Lancaster's greater population.[2][6]
 * Changed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would it make sense to mention that Cobb was a Chicagoan either here After building designs were submitted by various architects in another competition, Henry Ives Cobb was chosen in 1897 to design the new capitol. or perhaps in The Capitol Building Commission then held another design competition, for Pennsylvania architects only, which prevented Cobb from submitting a design or finishing his capitol.[22]
 * Added ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Does this need a ref? Ownership of the capitol was handed over to the state government on August 15, 1906, and the Capitol Building Commission was dissolved.
 * Added one. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 05:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would it make sense to add the years to the captions The Hills Capitol and The Cobb Capitol?
 * Couldn't find an exact year, just the year ranges that each building existed. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be unclear, I actually meant should the year ranges of existence be added to the captions (I think some readers look at the images and captions first). Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 03:42, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Could the direction be added here (my guess is it was to the east): From 1912 to 1917, the state acquired all of the 541 separate properties that made up the Eighth Ward, which was situated between the capitol and a set of railroad tracks [to the west?], then owned by the Pennsylvania Railroad.[36]
 * Reworded ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The NHL form seems to imply that the People's Court was a courtyard (not a court of law, which was my original thought) and that the East Wing is on the site of the parking lot that was where it was to have been built. Assuming my understanding is correct, should these points be added to the article?
 * Added that it was a courtyard. I mention the East Wing replacing a parking lot in the capitol complex section. Should I move it? ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't move it, but could the fact that the parking lot was the planned site of the People's Court be added there? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Added ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 03:42, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I am confused - the railroad tracks and State Street Bridge are on the east side of the capitol, the Susquehanna River is on the west side, but the article says two things that seem to contradict each other Brunner also planned a bridge to cross the railroad tracks and connect the capitol with the highest point in the city at 13th Street.[40] After his death, parts of the bridge were redesigned and became the current State Street Bridge, which was completed in 1930. The bridge was originally planned to span the Susquehanna River.
 * Clarified ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * This sentence is in the Interior section, but most of it is about the exterior (and I added the width): The capitol is 520 feet (160 m) long, 254 feet (77 m) wide,[54] 272 feet (83 m) tall and contains 475 rooms.[55]  Would it make more sense in the Exterior section? If so the number of rooms could be added to the current following sentence (It has [475 rooms and] four floors, not including a mezzanine between the first and second floors.
 * Also the ref that has the width also gives the acreage covered by the building (2 acres) - is this worth adding?
 * Added to the infobox. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I note that 2 acres seems to be the "footprint", not the total floor area of the capitol. If you multiply the length times the width (if the capitol were a rectangle shape), then the footprint would be just over 3 acres, so 2 acres makes sense. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Found the actual floor area, so I added that. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 03:42, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would this be better The staircase is an imperial staircase and is similar to the one in the Palais Garnier in Paris, France.[23]
 * I see this has been fixed already. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would it make sense to list the 28 famous Pennsylvanians in a footnote (they are in some of the refs used already) (I would be willing to help with this)?
 * Good idea! But what the section should be called? I already have a Notes and a References section. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I will be bold and do it - I meant to put them in a ref. OK - here's the diff, is this OK? I put them in alphabetical order. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:54, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Would it make sense to use a more parallel construction here It is located on the opposite side of the rotunda as the House. so more like  It is located on the north side of the rotunda, opposite the House.
 * Replaced ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Since the Pennsylvania Manual is online, should that be linked in the sources (currently just the wikilink to the PA Manual is there)?
 * Not sure. Which is better: an internal link or an external link? ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Would it be possible to have both (wikilink and external link)? If not, wikilink is fine. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's possible, but the PA Manual article has the external link to the book there. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 03:42, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I do not understand this sentence, specifically how buildings outside Harrisburg are part of the Capitol Complex, and the ref does not back this up that I can see: The Pennsylvania State Capitol Complex collectively includes most the buildings owned by Commonwealth and controlled by the Pennsylvania Department of General Services, except for state office buildings in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Scranton, and Reading.[65] (something similar is in the lead). The ref for this is Page I-9 of the PA Manual, but when I cheked this is just a map of the Capitol Complex in Harrisburg. I searched the whole PA Manual for "Capitol Complex" and found only this on page 4-61 that mentioned the other buildings" "DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PROPERTY MANAGEMENT Bureau of Facilities Management – Responsible for minor maintenance projects; housekeeping operations in the Capitol Complex; the Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Reading, and Scranton State Office buildings; and the Executive residences." This says the buildings outide Harrisburg are under the same bureau, but not that they are part of the Capitol Complex (as I read it).
 * Obviously, I didn't phrase that correctly. I've removed mention of the state office buildings to avoid confusion. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought maybe it was from a different reference. Thanks for the clarification. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Nicely done, and hope this helps, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I made some copyedits and added a few minor points, please revert if I made things worse or introduced errors.
 * Changed to support above - still a few quibbles left, but is close enough to support now, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * All taken care. Thanks for the support! ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 05:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * All issues resolved, great job! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 11:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Support (Finetooth) Leaning toward support. I peer-reviewed the article, and the concerns I raised then have been addressed, but I have a few additional quibbles.


 * Lead


 * "Before the capital was moved to Harrisburg in 1810, the seat of government for the state was in Philadelphia and, then, in Lancaster starting in 1799." - Would it be more clear to say, "The seat of government for the state was originally in Philadelphia, then moved to Lancaster in 1799 and finally to Harrisburg in 1810"? (Also, please see note below about 1812 vs. 1810).
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * History


 * Would it be helpful in the History section to add the locations of the other two seats of government relative to Philadelphia? Maybe "offered to donate land near the banks of the Susquehanna River in central Pennsylvania" and "legislature voted to move the capital to Lancaster, X miles west of Philadelphia, instead of Harrisburg... "? I didn't look up X, but it should be easy to find.
 * Added "central", but am hesitant to add the mileage from Philly (seems like an unnecessary statistic). ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OK.
 * Hills Capitol


 * "The Hills Capitol was visited a number of times by famous people... " - Delete "a number of times"?
 * Deleted ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The Hills Capitol section says that the seat of government moved to Harrisburg in 1812, but the lead says 1810. It appears that the government decided to move the seat in 1810 but didn't do it until 1812. Should the date in the lead be 1812?
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Restoration and preservation
 * "The statue was placed back onto the dome by Skycrane in September of the same year... ". - "was returned to" rather than "was placed back onto"?
 * Replaced ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Grounds


 * "The remaining 29 acres (12 ha) were added when the state bought the Eighth Ward, a neighborhood that was located behind the capitol." - Delete "a neighborhood that was located behind the capitol" since that's clear from the "Brunner plan" section?
 * Deleted ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Interior


 * "The rotunda is paved with tiles from the Moravian Pottery and Tile Works that were hand-crafted by Henry Chapman Mercer." - Since Mercer made the tiles rather than the Tile Works, I might re-cast this as "The rotunda is paved with tiles, hand-crafted by Henry Chapman Mercer, from the Moravian Pottery and Tile Works."
 * Flipped ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Capitol Complex


 * "The oldest building in the complex is the Executive, Library and Museum Building, situated adjacent to the Hills Capitol and the Huston Capitol, was constructed in 1894." - This sentence is tangled by the two competing main verbs. Suggestion: "The oldest building in the complex is the Executive, Library and Museum Building. Situated next to the Hills Capitol and the Huston Capitol, it was built in 1894."
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Finetooth (talk) 21:09, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding so promptly. Everything looks fine, and I'm pleased to support promotion. Finetooth (talk) 00:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose on criterion 3
 * File:Rep. Peterson, Sec. Norton, and Gov. Rendell Press Conference 2004.jpg - Please fix the source link.
 * File:PAState Capitol Outside Statue.JPG - There is no freedom of panorama in the US. The only way this image is free is if the sculpture was installed before 1923. According to the article, the sculpture was made in 1909. Please document on the image description page the date of installation and the sculptor's name (see above link for details).
 * File:Pennsylvania Capitol Rotunda.jpg - Same as above.
 * Fixed the links for the Congressional photo. Added details on the artistic works. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 16:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully these issues will be easy to fix. Awadewit (talk) 05:42, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * All image issues have been resolved - I'm striking my oppose. Awadewit (talk) 17:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Support meets FA criteria. Dincher (talk) 01:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments – Content is impressive to me, but there are still a few prose issues that need to be taken care of before a promotion. I won't guarantee that I found every possible improvement during the full reading I did, but there's plenty that I did find:
 * Hills Capitol: "Pennsylvania's collection of Civil War battle flags ... were moved...". If part of this sentence is dropped, it reveals a flaw in tenses. The last part should be changed to "was moved".
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * to the Executive Libary and Museum Building." Typo in here to cleanse.
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Cobb Capitol: Try to cut down on the repetitive use of "new capitol" here: "to design the new capital. Construction on the new capitol began on May 2, 1898. The legislature met in the new capitol on January 3, 1899". The easiest way I see is to change the second usage to a simple "Construction began", though it may lead to a short sentence.
 * Reworded the other two uses. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 04:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Huston Capitol: "Governor William A. Stone appointed a new Capital Building Commission in 1901. The Capital Building Commission ...". This is another case of close repetition. Here, the second use could be changed to just "The commission" without losing any meaning, making the prose a little tighter.
 * Changed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "out of only a total of nine entries in the competition". Move "only" to have it before "nine", the word it is intended to modify.
 * Moved ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "The collection of Civil War flags were removed...". Again, "were" should be "was" since the collection is singular.
 * Fixed. Should "were accumulated" be also changed to "was accumulated"? ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 04:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "after a parade and a ceromony". Another typo at the end?
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Brunner plan: ""The Education Building or Forum Building was completed in 1931." Is this entire name the official name of the building? If not, and it was called either of the two, "or Forum Building" would be better off in between commas.
 * Added commas ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The Pennsylvania State Capitol Building web page (from Ellis) is a dead link. I tried to read it in search of an answer to my previous question, and couldn't access it. The link checker confirmed that it is dead.
 * Nps.gov appears to down at the moment. I have a back-up link, but would like to avoid using it. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 04:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Grounds: "The monument was not placed on to the grounds until 1868...". Make "on to" one word? If so, there was another one earlier in the article, although I don't remember exactly where.
 * Replaced with "onto" ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "when the Executive, Library and Musuem Building was built." Other uses before didn't have the comma, but the ones in this section do. Try to make it one or the other.
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Interior: Two mezzanine links is probably one too many.
 * Removed the second ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "Both the House and Senate Chambers are on second floor". Add "the" before "second floor"?  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 00:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Added ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.