Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Penticton Regional Airport/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 22:41, 16 January 2013.

Penticton Regional Airport

 * Nominator(s): TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Following my successful co-nomination of "Episode 14" (Twin Peaks), I present the Penticton Regional Airport. A regional airport based in Penticton, British Columbia, it provides daily flights to the Vancouver International Airport. The article was listed as a good article in November 2012, and obtained a peer review in December 2012. After extensive copyedits, expansions, and cleanups, I now believe this entry meets the featured article criteria. Thanks in advance, and happy new year! TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Oppose Congratulations on posting the first FAC of 2013! Unfortunately the prose needs further work. While I have the following specific comments on the 'history' section, I think that a general copy edit is in order as the same kind of unclear or awkward wording occurs in the other sections. That all said, the underlying content and structure of the article look pretty good. From a quick skim of the other sections, the only specific comment I have (other than the above general comment on prose) is that the amount of detail on the proposals to have WestJet fly into the airport looks greatly excessive in comparison to the coverage of the arrival and departure of other airlines. Nick-D (talk) 10:21, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "The proposed locations were owned by the Penticton Indian Band, and were thus expropriated in 1949." - this is a bit unclear (were all the proposed locations taken from the Indian band?)
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "obtaining approximately 80,000 passengers in 2011" - 'obtaining' sounds odd in this context
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "with two accidents or incidents having occurred throughout its history." - were they accidents or incidents? Given that there have thankfully been only two of them you can be more precise here.
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "The facility maintains a restaurant, Sky High Diner, as well as medical facility, accommodation areas and administrative buildings; food and snacks are also offered." - I'm not sure if 'the facility maintains' is a good lead-in here; it makes the sentence a bit awkward
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "The airport has three scheduled flights daily, with one fewer on Sunday, to the Vancouver International Airport provided by Air Canada Express, which is operated by Jazz Air; the airline is adding an additional flight to the Vancouver International Airport on May 1, 2013. " - this is also a bit wordy
 * Which terms would you like me to fix? TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The whole thing is a bit awkward. I'd suggest splitting it into two sentences and using a simpler formulation than "The airport has three scheduled flights daily, with one fewer on Sunday," (eg, "There are current three scheduled flights to and from the airport from Monday to Saturday and two flights on Sundays" or similar). Nick-D (talk) 07:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have changed the context and writing of it based on Crisco's suggestion below. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "Kelowna International Airport has had an impact on traffic at the Penticton Regional Airport, with the majority of the local community choosing the former over the latter." - is this airport a new(ish) development?
 * It is not really a new development, but, as noted, it is currently being expanded. The history section contains more details. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Why the use of "has had" then, which implies that this represents a change in patronage? Nick-D (talk) 07:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Because it "has had" more traffic than this airport. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "Kelowna International Airport has had an impact on traffic" implies that this is a new development. How about "The nearby Kelowna International Airport is preferred by many travelers in the Penticton region..." or similar? Nick-D (talk) 07:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "The proposed areas—west of Penticton's city centre and north of the Skaha Lake—were owned by the Penticton Indian Band, and were therefore expropriated in 1949" - is it appropriate to present what appears to have been a land grab as being inevitable? Were the Indians compensated, and/or what was their reaction?
 * Added more information. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The source you've referenced for this seems to state that the Penticton Indian Band have been campaigning against this action for years, and as of 1999 maintained a claim to the land. This needs to be covered in the article - what's the history of the dispute, and how has it evolved since 1999? Nick-D (talk) 07:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Did the local Indian community really not raise concerns about their land being taken from them in 1949 until 1999? - that seems unlikely. Also, what's happened to the dispute since 1999? It may be worth consulting specialist literature on Indian land disputes. Nick-D (talk) 07:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "Due to wartime military air transportation concerns, the airport acted as an emergency landing strip until its tarmac could be completed." - this is unclear (what are "wartime military air transportation concerns"?)
 * "In 1968, Canadian Pacific Air Lines extended its services for the airport, scheduling two daily flights, only to be taken over by Pacific Western Airlines the following year.[5] However, in 1988, Canadian Airlines ended this service.[5] That was replaced by Time Air and Air BC airlines; both airlines are no longer active.[5]" - this is a bit unclear (it reads as something of a jumble of airline names, and starting a sentence with 'that was replaced' is a bit awkward)
 * "Later, a helicopter flight and training club was introduced to Penticton Regional Airport" - 'was introduced to' is awkward - how about 'was established at' or similar?
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "In 2009, Pacific Coastal Airlines offered its services at the Penticton Regional Airport for a period of twelve month" - this is unclear. It would be better to say what services it offered (eg flights from Penticton to other locations)
 * Sorry, there is no reliable source for that. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That doesn't seem to be the case at all. Googling "Pacific Coastal Airlines Penticton to Vancouver" (the airline's base) returns what seems to be a copy of the company's press release:, and this table from a 2009 Canadian government statistical collection with the relevant routes, and this recent news story which says that the flights to Calgary only lasted from 2007 to 2008. I'm sure that a more in-depth search will turn up more material. Nick-D (talk) 07:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "During this time, the airline accommodated an additional 22,000 passengers at the airport" - the airport accommodated these people
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "In addition, it has been able to support emergency Boeing 747 landings since the 1970s, but this capability has never been tested," - this is unclear. Am I right in thinking that the airport has a long enough runway, the other necessary infrastructure needed to allow a 747 to land at in an emergency and is certified for this role, but no such landing has ever taken place? ('to support' is unclear)
 * Yes, wouldn't know what to replace "support", though. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Why do most of the locals prefer Kelowna International Airport?
 * Sorry, a reliable source does not cover that, but I'd guess it flights to more destinations and offered more services. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You can work that into the article. Nick-D (talk) 07:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what the purpose of the paragraph which starts with '79,475 people live in the South Okanagan' is, and it's wording is rather rough.
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's still pretty awkward I'm afraid (especially the " hence why people investigated the need to expand" bit). Nick-D (talk) 07:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments, but that is all the coverage available now. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Comments from Crisco 1492
 * File:Penticton airport.jpg is of web resolution and from an editor with some seriously questionable edits. I'd advise against using it.
 * It appears to be a useful image related to the topic, and the license does not appear to be question. I am not sure about it, but is states "own work", which is usually valid. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Big citation needed on that one. I could download a movie poster and upload it to commons as my own work. That doesn't mean it's valid. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:19, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, according to an image search, the Commons picture in question is the only same picture that shows up, no other images of the exact same, so that could be indication that it may be the user's own work. I do not really want to remove it, as it is important to the subject, but that could perhaps be something. I could express concerns about this on Commons, if you'd like maybe. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Grammar is stilted all over, as indicated by Nick. Some examples from the lede and above:
 * "The main terminal building of an airport, with a "Penticton" sign near the entrance, as well as a "Arrivals" sign pointing to the right, with the same word wrote in French below it."
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Initial examination for constructing an airport in Penticton began in 1937. - An airport or this airport?
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The proposed locations were owned by the Penticton Indian Band, and were thus expropriated in 1949. - This implies that a correlation between ownership by the Penticton band and expropriation. Something like "The land for the airport was expropriated from the Penticton Indian Band in 1949." may be better.
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Rights for temporary public use of the Penticton Regional Airport were approved in 1945, which was promoted to a permanent airport license in 1956. - Rights ... was promoted? "Temporary public use of the Penticton Regional Airport was approved in 1945, and in 1956 the airport was given a permanent airport license" perhaps?
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you "obtain" passengers? The whole sentence feels like a run-on.
 * I think so; "obtain" means "get", and you can "get" passengers. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * But an airport doesn't keep 'em, it serves 'em. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:50, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The first sentence of the third paragraph feels like it's jamming too much information. Perhaps something like "The airport has three scheduled flights to the Vancouver International Airport every day, with one fewer on Sunday. These are provided by Air Canada Express, which intends to add an additional flight on May 1, 2013." or something else.
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think Jazz is pertinent enough for the lead. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:50, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 21:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

— Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. TBrandley (what's up) 17:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * K, a bit more in-depth today... hopefully I can finish it.
 * "The airfield maintains a restaurant, Sky High Diner, as well as medical facility, accommodation areas and administrative buildings; food and snacks are also offered." - Feels redundant, "restaurant ... food and snacks"
 * for an operation of 24 hours - 24 hours a day? 24 hours a week? a year?
 * Done. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The whole paragraph about the controversy reads out of place. Add to another section, perhaps? Over-footnoted too.
 * Moved. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Transport Canada later announced a six week break for the situation, - From what?
 * Clarified. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * additional 22,000 passengers - In addition to what? You haven't provided figures yet
 * Removed. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Over 50 percent of the local area - the area or the residents?
 * Clarified. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * According to research, - Whose research?
 * Changed. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * However, in 1990, it was considered to be the area's primary airport, hence why people questioned the need to expand the Kelowna International Airport at that time, when its runway was in the process of expansion. - Run on sentence, subject not clear (you've been talking demographics)
 * What's with using nautical miles?
 * Not done. It what is given in the source and tends to be the standard throughout the world. A lot of airports are sourced from the Aeronautical Information Publication and only a few give a distance from town in kilometres. For example: Australia, United States, and Norway. For some airports you can find another source, such as the airport website, that will give you the distance in kilometres. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Airport Beach attraction... what?
 * Clarified. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * 247 employees work for the Penticton Regional Airport. - Kind of jolting, and we shouldn't start sentences with numerals.
 * Already done. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Are numbered 16-34 and aligned 16-34 synonyms?
 * Changed. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * flown to other locations - Airports don't fly. "served other destinations?"
 * Already done. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * aircraft movements - What is this?
 * It is a common term among airports across the world, see its aircraft movement and list. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Bit about Westjet seems like too much detail compared to the other contents (i.e. WP:UNDUE). Two paragraphs? Suggest merging these proposals into a single paragraph.
 * Well, the WestJet addition is through because it is a notable plan, and other topics in this case do not contain all those information and details, so there is nothing I can do about that. The idea of merging it into the other paragraph is not suitable, as it would make that paragraph in question huge. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying keep all of the stuff, but trim it. Keep a historical point of view; we don't need a step by step programme of what they've done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Trimmed. TBrandley (what's up) 16:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Make sure everything is linked at the first mention.
 * Every suitable article is linked upon first mention, according to the Manual of Style. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've done a fairly thorough copyedit, be sure to check.
 * Thanks for the additional comments and copyedit. TBrandley (what's up) 05:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

— Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The controversy bit still doesn't flow. If you can find more historical information, it might be worth a sub-section of its own ("Land dispute", perhaps) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:28, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The current information appears to be all that is available, and it seems to fit in there, as it is regarding airport ownership. TBrandley (what's up) 05:45, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It's rather bad to have a map showing where an airport is that doesn't show what population centres it serves. Adam Cuerden (talk) 23:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * This appears to be common consensus among Canadian airports, and there are no other maps available for Penticton, so the map of British Columbia will have to do. Sorry, but happy new year. TBrandley (what's up) 23:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Are any of these other airports featured, though? We can ask for high standards from featured articles. =) Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:39, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * No, there are currently no featured articles of the airport topic according to the list, unfortunately. TBrandley (what's up) 05:45, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how locator maps work, but it would be pretty straightforward to create a map via an Open Street Map screenshot, and I agree that it would add a lot of value (especially if it also showed the relative location of Kelowna International Airport). Nick-D (talk) 06:33, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, I was thinking of something like this. I'll work on it. TBrandley (what's up) 05:45, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.