Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Percy Fender/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:Ian Rose 08:37, 5 February 2013‎.

Percy Fender

 * Nominator(s): Sarastro1 (talk) 20:14, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Percy Fender was the England cricket captain who never was. Something of a cricketing maverick, his face never fitted with the people who mattered and he was destined to spend his time trying to force wins out of a fairly average county team and come up with some fairly outlandish tactical theories. An unusual sort of chap, and he bore a marked resemblance to Groucho Marx! This article is currently a GA and has had a PR from Brianboulton. All comments welcome. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:14, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Image check - all OK (PD-1923). Sources provided, images with unknown authors kept on Wiki.
 * For the images with unclear UK authorship, you could try to upload them to Commons with Commons:template:PD-UK-unknown (after a "reasonable enquiry" searching for the author details failed - see commons template-documentation). Just a suggestion, if you want to have the images on Commons, the current solution works too. GermanJoe (talk) 07:59, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

This is plainly FA material, but I make a few observations before adding my support.
 * Comments from Tim riley
 * Sussex career
 * "His performances the Gentlemen" – missing a preposition, such as "with" or "for"
 * Career in wartime
 * "Although commissioned as a lieutenant in the Royal Fusiliers, Fender disliked the routine of army life – not sure what the "although" means here. I'd make it more neutral: something on the lines of "Commissioned as a lieutenant in the Royal Fusiliers, Fender disliked the routine of army life"
 * Appointment as Surrey captain
 * This really is nit-picking, but on my screen J. W. H. T. Douglas's first three intials are at the end of one line and his fourth is at the start of the next. Non-breaking spaces needed.
 * Or J.W.H.T. Douglas, which I think looks better. Brianboulton (talk) 18:34, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Nothing of any great moment there, but worth a look, perhaps. Tim riley (talk) 17:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "regarded his selection a formality" – is this a stylistic preference or have you accidentally omitted "as"?
 * Resignation and retirement
 * "Fender offered to resign as Surrey's captain, to give Jardine more experience of leadership" – this is the first mention that Jardine played under Fender for Surrey, and may come as a surprise to non-specialist readers. Perhaps you could say in the previous para "passed this information on to his Surrey colleague Douglas Jardine…"
 * Captaincy
 * "he was in the wine trade, which was considered an unsuitable trade for a gentleman" – too many trades; perhaps "occupation" or "career" the second time?
 * Personal life
 * "The couple had two children but Ruth died suddenly … Fender remarried in 1962, but his second wife, Susan Gordon, died in 1968." I don't think either of these "but"s is justified. I'd use a  semicolon instead – much more neutral.
 * References
 * Refs 1 a–m don't actually mention that the work quoted is the ODNB.
 * Thanks for all these. I've fixed most of them. The only one I've left is the second "but" regarding his wife: the alternatives are two semi-colons in succession or a load of choppy sentences. I think some sort of connection between the two parts needs making, and "but" is the best I can manage! Any other suggestions welcome. The ODNB problem was because I'd used the wrong template; it should be OK now. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Support – a model of its kind: full but not over-full, balanced, impressively referenced and a pleasure to read. Meets all FA criteria in my opinion. Tim riley (talk) 17:52, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind comments and support. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Support: I did a little copyediting at the PR stage. I've nothing really to add to my PR comments; Fender was an interesting cricketer and personality, and his story is well told here. Well done Brianboulton (talk) 18:34, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Much obliged for your help on this one, and for your support. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments – Not much to report so far; I've read through everything before Resignation and retirement.
 * Sussex career: Don't think Sussex needs the link here, as it was linked in the previous section.
 * The same is true for Lord's.
 * Appointment as Surrey captain: "his first 100 wickets in a season." Feels a bit awkward, unless "first 100 wickets in a season" is actually used (wouldn't know). Maybe try "his first 100-wicket haul in a season."? Not sure if people use that phrase, though. Basically, you need more cricket knowledge than I have to find better phrasing for this part. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 18:35, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * All these done; I've reworded the last one, as there is no easy cricket expression to cover it! Thanks for the comments so far. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:53, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Batting, bowling and fielding: "While Fender's love of experimentation and attempts to surprise batsmen made him difficult to bat against, it also caused inconsistency and sometimes conceded many runs." Two problems here. First, "it" needs to be "they" since two items are discussed beforehand. Second, the "sometimes conceded many runs" doesn't work well with the structure of this sentence. "and sometimes led him to concede many runs" sounds better to me, but I'm sure you can find something better.
 * Period needed before ref 139.
 * The Arlott quote has "Fender was", and later in the sentence there's "he was". It's hard to describe, but this doesn't work as one sentence if you read it as a whole. I'd try going the "Arlott wrote of Fender:" route.
 * Captaincy: "Fender's limited success as Test level...". "as" → "at".
 * Cricket journalism: An en dash needed for the range in 1920-21. Also, the same applies for 1928-29. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 01:31, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, all these should now be fixed. Sarastro1 (talk) 16:39, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Support – Very well written, couldn't find issues. Great job! Zia Khan 00:20, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your support. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:18, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Support as GA reviewer, good job with the article. Secret account 00:15, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Delegate comments -- query & suggestion re. lead:
 * Don't think I've seen birth and death places added to the life dates in the first sentence -- is this a trend?
 * Cartoonists enjoyed caricaturing his distinctive appearance, but he was also well known outside cricket for his appearances and activities in society -- pedantry but if another word could be found for one of the "appearances"s it'd be nice, paritcularly as the instances have different meanings. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:08, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I got both of these. The first is less an attempt to begin a trend, more of a hangover from old versions of the article! Sarastro1 (talk) 11:25, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Sources review:
 * All sources look good qualitiy and reliable
 * One small format inconsistency. Compare ref 90 with 45 and 137'

Otherwise all fine. Brianboulton (talk) 15:57, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it should be OK now. I don't have a page number for the Fender obituary, and I think that is the only other inconsistency. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Support – Now that the couple little quibbles above have been dealt with, I'm confident that the FA criteria are met. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 03:24, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your support and comments. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:21, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 13:34, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.