Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Persoonia linearis/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

This article was promoted by 10:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC).

Persoonia linearis

 * Nominator(s): Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Another day another plant....I am celebrating getting one of these for my garden by writing about it. I've done what I can..have at it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Casliber. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 16 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment Several citation errors. Many references (Wrigley, and Elliot & Jones) do not actually link to the Cited text links, thus giving rise to the Harv errors. --Dwaipayan (talk) 04:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * forgot the target coding in the two cited texts - fixed now Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Comments
 * File:Perslinfruit1 email.jpg needs an information template.
 * templated. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Support Albacore (talk) 18:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * thx. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:37, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Image check - all OK (Casliber's own work, PD-1923). Source and author provided (tweaked 1-2 minor issues). GermanJoe (talk) 12:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Comment - not a lot to criticize here, just a few comments:
 * infobox - optional, but a locator map for Australia in the infobox map would be helpful (atleast for readers just looking at the pretty pictures). The infobox has no info, that the plant is actually from Australia.
 * I will see what i can do - you mean something like this one?. I have added "australia" to the caption. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Or the other way around, adding a small australia overview map (maybe in the lower left corner, which is relatively empty) and just marking the large map area there as box. No preference, whatever looks better and is easy to create - it's a minor point. GermanJoe (talk) 13:09, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Aah, that might be easier. WIll give it a go. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:13, 21 February 2013 (UTC) damn, I can't make it look nice...sigh. Just comes out looking too "busy"....and then there are a stack of other species articles with state maps I'll have to change :P Will see what the consensus ends up being here. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * lead - "However, it adapts readily to cultivation and is [straightforward] to grow ..." - a bit informal, maybe just "easy"
 * See, "easy" would strike me as more informal. However I did think of another way so reworded now Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Taxonomy "Persoonia linearis was [officially] described in 1799 by Henry Charles Andrews..." - would imply, he was authorized to do so by some formal institution. If yes, maybe name the institution or the specific work. The next sentence refers to "... in the book ..." with no book introduced yet.
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Taxonomy - the whole first paragraph is very hard to digest for an occasional reader. A lot of small pieces of information and the narrative jumps from 1891 back to 1807. Would it be possible and clearer to split that para in 2 separate paragraphs, maybe along "official taxonomy" and "inofficial and erronous taxonomy"?
 * done - split is (luckily) natural - early and correct and alternatives and later. paras 3 and 4 are then classification within the genus. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Description - Again, splitting that paragraph could help occasional readers through the content.
 * para split now Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:32, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Distribution "It grows in sunny ..." - is the lengthy list of trees and shrubs here necessary or could it be replaced with a more general statement (what type of trees, what type of shrubs?).
 * Hmm, there are all sorts of specific associations in plant communities and it can be difficult to generalise. I can add have added common names to make it more accessible. One of the things I like about Australian flora is all these subcommunities and associations of plants. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Cultivation - "Germination from seed is [low] ...", should that be "slow", referring to a process in time?
 * There is a low chance of germination, and seeds that do take an insanely long time to do... Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

From a layman's view the article has no obvious problems regarding FA-criteria. My only minor concern is, that some parts of the narrative could be a bit more accessible to the average reader. GermanJoe (talk) 12:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * FN2: suggest using loc parameter rather than page
 * done. I never knew of the "at=" parameter until about 30 seconds ago.... Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:30, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * FN9 is using a very broad page range, would it be possible to narrow it a bit?
 * page range reduced Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:26, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * FN10: doubled period. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:39, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * got it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:22, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim Just a few nitpicks  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:50, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It reaches 3, or occasionally 5, m (10–16 ft) in height  &mdash; I'm not sure why, but this construction looks a bit odd to me, perhaps It reaches 3 m (10 ft), or occasionally 5 m (16 ft) in height ''
 * me being economical with words - changed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * and has thick dark grey papery bark.  &mdash; comma somewhere?
 * added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Lanceolata  &mdash; not sure why this is capped when it's P. lanceolata
 * It's the name applied to the group (Peter Weston didn't rank it, but it'd be a series or something), so isn't the specific epithet as such (though is named for one) Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * which is now known as Persoonia × lucida &mdash; why not P. lucida × levis?
 * Well, it'd be P. linearis x levis, but it has remained "lucida" with an 'x' signifying hybrid status...who am I to argue with the herbarium...... Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * geebung, derived from the Dharug language word geebung or jibbong &mdash; what does "geebung" actually mean?
 * It means the fruit of the plant. More than that, I haven't seen sources Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 to 50 flowers &mdash; One to 50?
 * That looks odd to me - I figure I'd write 1-50 or "one to fifty"...... Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Persoonia linearis is one of several species of Persoonia that regenerate by resprouting from its trunk &mdash; their trunks methinks
 * tweaked. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Obviously not obligatory, but you might want to give the structure of the active chemical. Incidentally, the capitalised H in that formula is wrong, yours is right. I think that there should be a hyphen after hydroxyphenyl though.
 * I can't see any other problems, changed to support above  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  11:08, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Support on prose and comprehensiveness grounds Comments from Cwmhiraeth - A few issues on the prose which I would have thought would have been picked up by previous reviewers:
 * Such a degree of precision in the size of the leaves seems unnecessary in the lead.
 * I was going to trim that....but they are usually narrower rather than wider, so saying "up to 0.7 cm" I think is misleading. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The last sentence in the lead has two "readily"s and I thought the use of "However" to start a sentence was deprecated.
 * I believe there are conflicting views on that one, and I have certainly done it in most of my articles without being challenged. I really don't want to splice it in as the second word. If you can think of an engaging alternative I am all ears Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The first sentence in the Taxonomy section is too long and convoluted.
 * split. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:50, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "but the binomial name is an illegitimate name as it postdated Andrews' description and name" - why not just "is illegitimate" so as to avoid repeating "name".
 * good point - trimmed Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:25, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "He described a variety sericea from the Shoalhaven River region and also noted the discrepancy in a description of the species by Robert Brown, who noted the bark to be smooth, in contrast to Ferdinand von Mueller and others who recorded the bark as layered." - I think this sentence could be subdivided.
 * split. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:59, 16 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "Bentham wrote in 1870 that the name geebung, derived from the Dharug language word geebung or jibbong ..." - So what do these words actually mean?
 * see above - the indigenous people used the word for the fruits of this species - I clarified it a bit Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:32, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * In the Description section, not all measurements have imperial conversions.
 * done a couple. I have left one that is in mm and would be too small in inches to make much sense. Unless you think I should do that last one? Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:50, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "each stem may bear 1 to 50 flowers." - I would have thought "up to 50 flowers" would be better.
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "provide a landing area for insects attending to the stigma" - It sounds as if the insects are on pollination duty!
 * changed "attending to" to "visiting" Casliber (talk · contribs)


 * The description section seems a bit unbalanced with a very detailed description of the flowers but relatively little on other parts of the tree and its form.
 * the problem is reflecting what is written in the sources. The floral parts are by nature more complicated and hence there is more to write about them. I'll have another look but it is very tricky. I can't find anything on seedlings for this species, for instance. Casliber (talk · contribs)
 * That is understandable. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:10, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * That raised an interesting question for me, a person who’s a south–eastern Australian field botanist, very familiar with Persoonia linearis in the field. So i did a quick scholarly search for scientific papers covering or touching on the subject of this species seedlings. I agree with your implied meaning Casliber, there is a lack of information on this species seedlings (and research on the ecological–function(al) group it is one of: seeder–resprouters –one paper i read explicitly detailed the lack of research of this group). In that context of a known lack of research, i only found one promising paper published by the CSIRO:
 * —but haven’t gone to the library yet to get and read the electronic full text version, if you have this paper, please check it and also send an e-copy to me.
 * Oh! Furthermore, you twice mention the paper in the article, on post-fire resprouting; does it not have any information about the seedlings. If not then it appears that is all. ——--macropneuma 00:03, 17 March 2013 (UTC) —clarifying, including adding last sentence—--macropneuma 02:30, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh! Furthermore, you twice mention the paper in the article, on post-fire resprouting; does it not have any information about the seedlings. If not then it appears that is all. ——--macropneuma 00:03, 17 March 2013 (UTC) —clarifying, including adding last sentence—--macropneuma 02:30, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Is this tree deciduous?
 * no. very few plants in Australia are... Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:00, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Link or explain "sclerophyll forest".
 * I'd forgotten to link it in the body as well as the lead - linked now Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I think the sentence starting "It grows in sunny to lightly shaded areas" is too long.
 * split sentence Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "Currambene Lowlands Forest" - Is this a physical location?
 * it is a local ecological plant community in the area described (around Jervis Bay south of Sydney) - bit too localised possibly for a redlink. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:00, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Link "Tambo River".
 * It is linked at first mention...though the two mentions are almost at opposite ends of the article...I don't mind where the second mention is linked or not. Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:28, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "an adaptation to the fire-prone habitat it grows in." - I would prefer "an adaptation to the fire-prone habitat in which it grows."
 * not overly fond of that construction, so went with "an adaptation to the fire-prone habitat where it grows." Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:57, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "The plant can reshoot from the base, but generally only if the stem or trunk is killed; hence it is a back-up mechanism only." - What precisely does "it" refer to here?
 * "It" refers to reshooting from the base...but it is pretty obvious from what happens that the segment is redundant, so removed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:19, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "First cultivated in England in 1794 by seed, it was also reportedly propagated by cutting;" - I would prefer "from seed" and "from cutting", and shouldn't "cutting" be in the plural?
 * done x 2 Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * There is some inconsistency on the use of the "Oxford" comma.
 * I must admit I am not a fan of them, but they are convenient to slot in inline ref behind if required. Given that is not needed here, I have removed them Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:02, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Image placement: You might like to consider rearranging the images; the illustration of flowers and leaves could accompany the Description section; the bark image could be in the Ecology section; you could collapse the synonyms list to give more room for images while not sandwiching the text.
 * the diversity of screen shapes and sizes makes this a challenge - rearranged a bit. Need to find the collapse thingy for the synonyms... Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * ‘We ’ave ’em ’ere!’ (Synonyms collapsed using and ): Nauclea orientalis (where i recently encountered ’em and today was inspired by this FA advice to make good use of them, here:) Dysoxylum fraserianum and Millettia pinnata.——--macropneuma 07:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

That's all for now. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:23, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Your improvements seem good to me and I have changed my "comments" above to "support". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:10, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I've been looking around for a taxobox with collapsing synonyms without success - know of one? Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:19, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I received instruction on this when I was working on Common toad for FA. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:26, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Great! I knew I'd seen it somewhere and I couldn't for the life of me recall where..... Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:35, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you correspondents. Incidentally, here, i learned there is an even higher standard of a way to collapse taxobox synonym lists (a proper 'FA way'), than using … . ——--macropneuma 01:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 05:13, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.