Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Philip Humber/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 14:06, 25 August 2012.

Philip Humber

 * Nominator(s): – Muboshgu (talk) 15:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC), 

When Humber threw his perfect game in April, it drew me to this article, which was in lousy shape. TonyTheTiger was drawn to it too. In an excellent collaboration, we performed a 5x expansion to promote the page for DYK, passed it through GA, and also obtained a peer review. Now, we're ready to co-nominate this article for FA. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Muboshgu. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments: I don't like seeing FACs waiting a week or more for their first comments, so here are a few observations on the prose in the early sections - by no means a complete review, but hopefully this will kickstart this FAC: I don't have time at the moment to go any further, but I'll keep an eye on progress. Brianboulton (talk) 21:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Some repetitive prose in the lead: "He subsequently played for the high school baseball team at Carthage High School in Carthage, Texas. Humber led his high school baseball team to the state championship..." It should be possible to avoid this.
 * Fixed that sentennce – Muboshgu (talk) 14:53, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps give the year Humber was "Player of the Year".
 * 2001 added to lead – Muboshgu (talk) 14:53, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I would except an encyclopedia article to use the formal the medical term rather than "Tommy John". Many of your readers will have to use the link to understand the term, which is never a good idea.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed to UCL reconstruction in the lead. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:53, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The sentences in the "Early life" section seem haphazardly ordered, without any sequential thread, and with unexplained statements. For example, what is the relevance of "As of 2004, the Panola County Dixie League teams had won 15 state championships in the preceding 20 years..." I would give this section some serious attention.
 * Same section: "Carthage was a Texas anomaly with its baseball athletes being the most admired role models rather than football players." Not the best phrasing. I'd put a comma after "anomaly", lose "with" and add "its" before "football players".
 * Done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:30, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "Humber attended Carthage High School in Carthage, Texas". The Scool's location is a given, and you have referrd to "Carthage, Texas" in the previous section.
 * removed Carthage.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What is "junior varsity"? Link "sophomore" for non-US readers, and give a date for the sophomore year.
 * Linked.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:53, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * A general point, after which I will stop. I appreciate that, when writing an article related to a particular sport, you will need to use the language of that sport to a certain extent; you cannot keep stopping to explain terms. But in a general encyclopedia you have to take some steps to make the article broadly accessible. Sentences like "Humber struck out six and walked only one in a three-hit shutout..." are pretty well impossible to fathom, unless you are familiar with the game. I suggest you look out for this aspect through the article, and add the odd few words of explanation from time to time.
 * In that particular instance, I changed it to "He pitched a shutout", with the term linked. The other details were not important. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Oppose – Sorry, but I'm just seeing way too many issues after reading only the lead and first two body sections. I can see why Brian is having trouble with certain aspects of the article, and there are some subtle prose and MoS issues as well. Giants2008 ( Talk ) 23:26, 10 August 2012 (UTC) Overall, this is a lot of outstanding issues and I don't claim to have caught every issue. I wonder if at some point withdrawing and resubmitting the article after some more work would be the best course. It's not an easy decision, but I'm not convinced this can be improved to meet the FA prose standards in the timeframe of an FAC. Giants2008 ( Talk ) 00:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "It took him several years to regain his velocity after the surgery." I know what this means, but fear that non-baseball fans won't know that this refers to the speed of his pitches. Maybe that could be made more clear as a way to avoid jargon.
 * How is it now.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:58, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Amateur career: I don't see how the second sentence of this section is relevant to Humber's career. It's already been made clear that the area has some baseball tradition, which is all that is needed. I think this is an extension of the issue Brian already spotted.
 * Hyphen should probably be removed from "nationally-ranked".
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:21, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "and a (WAC)-leading 130 strikeouts in 110 2/3 innings". Parentheses are undesirable here.
 * Done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:32, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Remove "the" from "Nonetheless, Humber earned an invitation to the USA Baseball's national team trials."?
 * Done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:34, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The sentence about Humber being scheduled to start against Notre Dame appears to be about the College World Series. If so, it should be moved up to before the sentence about the national team trials. It makes no sense to have the writing jump around like this.
 * The invitation for the national team trials was in the same citation with College World Series results, so the invitation came at that time. Although the trials were much later, the invitation was made irrespective of activities at the CWS.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:27, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Spaced em dashes in the next paragraph are a no-no according to MoS. Another more acceptable format should be found instead.
 * Last three words are quite redundant in "as Rice won its first national championship in any team sport, not just baseball." Doesn't "any team sport" say everything that needs to be said?
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:40, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "He pitched a complete game four-hit in the decisive third game of the series". "four-hit" → "four-hitter".
 * Removed "four-hit" entirely, as it isn't crucial and makes the article too jargony. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:40, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I find it odd that after discussing his College World Series performance, we go to facts about the middle of the season. Shouldn't the order be reversed, to remain as chronological as is practical?
 * I had felt that the following sentences were season summaries, rather than inseason accomplishments, but I have moved them to earlier in the paragraph at your request: "That season, Humber achieved his 17th consecutive win in WAC play. He was recognized as a Third Team All-American by Collegiate Baseball and was a First Team All-Western Athletic Conference honoree."
 * "He also set the Rice single-game record for strikeouts when he fanned 17 Hawaii Rainbow Warriors hitters March 20, 2004." Ignoring for a second that "fanned" is jargon that non-baseball fans will get lost with, it may not even be accurate. Fanned is used in baseball terms for swinging strikeouts, and would only be appropriate here if every batter who struck out did so while swinging.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:23, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, "on" should be added before the date in the above sentence.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:44, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "most recently when Steve Hosey, Tom Goodwin and Eddie Zosky were selected in the first round of the 1989 Major League Baseball Draft of the Fresno State Bulldogs." Would read better if "of the Fresno State Bulldogs" was moved directly after the three names.
 * Done. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:38, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've started to give the early life and amateur sections some copy editing. I'll keep up with it today. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * New York Mets: "The New York Mets chose Humber out of Rice University with their first-round draft pick in the 2004 Major League Baseball Draft". Redundancy here with "draft". The first one isn't needed at all.
 * done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:20, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "John Manuel of Baseball America reported the contract was worth a maximum of $5.116". I assume "million" should be at the end of this?
 * Done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Minor, but the Baseball America link could be moved up one paragraph.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Repetition from one sentence to another in the following prose: "Humber was named the 20th best prospect in the Florida State League by Baseball America. Baseball America...". Could try "The publication" or similar for the second usage.
 * I merged the sentences.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:29, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure why "fifth-best" has the hyphen when many similar instances don't. I'd use the hyphen myself, but internal consistency matters.
 * They're all hyphened now. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "For the season, Humber finished tied for fourth in the PCL in wins and the tenth-best ERA." For this to work grammatically, it needs "had" after "and". It also shows more inconsistent hyphenation, by the way.
 * Added had.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:32, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "He flirted with a no-hitter with the Zephyrs on August 22 when he entered the ninth inning without giving a hit to the Iowa Cubs." Add "up" after "giving"?
 * Thanks.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:34, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * In the last paragraph of the section, I see no reason to provide Mike Pelfrey's full name again, or to give him another wikilink. There are some other repeat links from earlier in the section that pop up in the following sentence; these could use pruning.
 * fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:39, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Minnesota Twins: More sentence-to-sentence repeating here: "to acquire two-time Cy Young Award-winning pitcher Johan Santana. Santana...".
 * Fixed. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it would be helpful to non-baseball fans to explain what is meant by "Following the 2008 season, Humber was out of options." I can imagine some people not understanding it.
 * I linked the first usage of the word to Option (baseball), and added more content on what happens when one is out of options. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Chicago White Sox: "He made two pitches, both of which were hits that came around to score." Something about this doesn't sit well with me. The people scored as baserunners, not the hits themselves.
 * Good catch.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:42, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Was there any attention given to why he wasn't selected as an All-Star in 2011, given that at one point he was a "probable" pick? Was it because of some poor starts?
 * Redundancy here: "It was the third perfect game in White Sox history after perfect games thrown by Charlie Robertson and Mark Buehrle". Not loving the multiple "perfect game"s in here. See if one of them can be trimmed.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Publishers in refs 27 (Baseball America), 40 (same), and 88 (also same) should be italicized.
 * Well, I fixed #27, but I'm not sure why 40 and 88 don't work. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Refs 49, 50, and 56 need publishers (Baseball America in each case), as does 73 (The New York Times).
 * Done. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 56 still doesn't have one. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 01:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Got it this time. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Capitalization of MiLB.com should be made more consistent.
 * Fixed. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * MLB could be spelled out in several of the references.
 * Is that necessary? shouldn't it be spelled out the first time and abbreviated afterwards? – Muboshgu (talk) 02:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What makes BrooksBaseball.net (ref 130) a reliable source?
 * They collaborate with Baseball Prospectus, which is certainly a RS. They are presenting PITCHf/x data, which is purely objective. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:54, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Two more I noticed while checking the recent edits. First, the double punctuation in "striking out 422 in 354 innings pitched.," should be fixed in Amateur career. Second, the Mets section has one instance where Oliver Perez's name has diacritics, and one instance where it doesn't. The second instance probably doesn't need his full name, but it shows an inconsistency that should not be there. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 01:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed the Perez duplication, and noticed one for John Maine too. I fixed the double punctuation also. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:46, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Personal life:
 * "2011–2012 offseason" - would put "after the 2011 season" or (similar) to avoid readers from potentially thinking it's including offseasons of post-'11 and '12 seasons
 * "currently lives in Tyler" - switch to "as of (year)" Zepppep (talk) 03:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.