Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Philip I Philadelphus/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 22:56, 17 August 2018.

Philip I Philadelphus

 * Nominator(s): Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

This article is about a little known king reigning Syria at the end of the once great Seleucid empire. He was one among four contenders for the throne, all of them managed to rule some parts of the country! Yet, despite his humble role in history, Rome found it fit to maintain his image on the coins of its Syrian province for fifty years: so he must have left an impression in the region. The article went through copy editing by the guild and is the result of extensive research in which I made sure to represent all scholarly views.Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Source review
A couple of what I think are typos in the refs but didn't like to change: That apart, all the sources appear reputable and in line with WP:RS, and are consistently cited.  Tim riley  talk    18:23, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Chronotope in Liberature" – Literature?
 * "Mmonetary" – Monetary?
 * correct though.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Support – A good read, well and widely cited, and, as far as a layman can see, comprehensive.  Tim riley  talk    20:16, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Dank

 * "Tigranes II of Armenia conquered Syria that year at the request of the Antiochian population, who refused to accept Philip's minor son as his successor. This is debatable, however, since the conquest might have occurred in 74 BC.": This is confusing. Give it another shot.
 * Does anyone else find the wording here confusing? - Dank (push to talk)
 * "In the face of their uncle": I don't know what that means.
 * I don't know what "In the face of " means. - Dank (push to talk)
 * I don't know what "In confrontation of their uncle" means. Did they confront him? - Dank (push to talk)
 * What you just said is clear to me. - Dank (push to talk) 12:34, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Those factors, combined with the low estimates of annual coin dies used by Philip's immediate predecessors in Antioch—Antiochus X (his second reign) and Demetrius III, disproportionate compared with the general die estimates of late Seleucid kings—led numismatist Oliver D. Hoover to propose that Philip recoined his predecessors' coins and skewed their dies[38] to produce currency bearing his image, reduced in weight from the standard 1,600 g (56 oz) to 1,565 g (55.2 oz).": That's quite a mouthful for one sentence.
 * "111–110 BC", "85–84 BC": The trouble is that everyone thinks they know what the dash means, but when you ask them, different people say it means different things. If "or" was meant here, say "or".
 * Without reading the footnotes, how will the reader know that this is what is meant? Most of the time, readers don't rely on links for comprehension. "or" would work, and wouldn't require a lot of scholarly explanation. - Dank (push to talk)
 * Other reviewers may want to weigh in on this one. - Dank (push to talk) 12:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The solution now adopted is unorthodox, but, I think, sensible. I'm happy to support it.  Tim riley  talk    18:14, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "which could not have been produced in if his reign": ?
 * Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 20:20, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "111–110 BC", "85–84 BC": The trouble is that everyone thinks they know what the dash means, but when you ask them, different people say it means different things. If "or" was meant here, say "or".
 * Without reading the footnotes, how will the reader know that this is what is meant? Most of the time, readers don't rely on links for comprehension. "or" would work, and wouldn't require a lot of scholarly explanation. - Dank (push to talk)
 * Other reviewers may want to weigh in on this one. - Dank (push to talk) 12:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The solution now adopted is unorthodox, but, I think, sensible. I'm happy to support it.  Tim riley  talk    18:14, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "which could not have been produced in if his reign": ?
 * Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 20:20, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The solution now adopted is unorthodox, but, I think, sensible. I'm happy to support it.  Tim riley  talk    18:14, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "which could not have been produced in if his reign": ?
 * Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 20:20, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 20:20, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I just now saw this comment; I didn't get pinged by it because you didn't sign. I wouldn't go with a hatnote. - Dank (push to talk) 21:24, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Image review


 * Suggest scaling up the map
 * File:Philippus_Philadelphus_infobox.jpg should include an explicit copyright tag for the original work. Same with File:Philippos_Philadelphos_-_AR_tetradrachm.jpg
 * File:Aulus_Gabinius.jpg: source site appears to claim copyright on this photo. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Aulus_Gabinius.jpg: source site appears to claim copyright on this photo. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Aulus_Gabinius.jpg: source site appears to claim copyright on this photo. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

From FunkMonk

 * I'll review this soon. FunkMonk (talk) 08:15, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the infobox image could need a caption.
 * "according to Eusebius Philip was also there" Comma between the names?
 * "thought it was Beroea." Since this links to modern day Aleppo, I wonder whether that should be stated in parenthesis?
 * "to prepare for a challenge for the throne" To prepare against might sound better, so you prevent two "for" in a row.
 * "Alfred Raymond Bellinger" Present him and others mentioned.
 * Might be interesting to see if we can find some variations of the coins, like those showing beards, and with his twin. The ones currently used are very similar to each other.
 * here and here
 * FunkMonk, License for Limited Uses.
 * Seems very strict, sadly: "You may not republish, commercially distribute, duplicate, or exploit any aspect of the Website, either code or content. Other than the Fair Usage specified in the License for Limited Uses, You may not download, reproduce, modify, distribute, transfer, sell, or create derivative works of any code, contents, data, whether specifically copyrighted or not. Any unauthorized usage of the Website may subject You to civil or criminal prosecution." FunkMonk (talk) 01:41, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Look here
 * Cool, now I just think it needs a direct link to where the image can be found in the source field. FunkMonk (talk) 01:03, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * This link take you to the book's entry on the website is the downlad link.
 * I mean for where the book can be downloaded, could be linked in the source field. FunkMonk (talk) 01:19, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, I assume the licence covers their journal too. FunkMonk (talk) 01:42, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I mean for where the book can be downloaded, could be linked in the source field. FunkMonk (talk) 01:19, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, I assume the licence covers their journal too. FunkMonk (talk) 01:42, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, I assume the licence covers their journal too. FunkMonk (talk) 01:42, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

, did you have anything to add? (Not admonishing you to declare a position, just making sure you're all done.) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:19, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * "accept Philip's minor son" WP:Easter egg links are discouraged, spell out the name.
 * Support - strange, I thought I had already supported, but here it is! FunkMonk (talk) 10:22, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Support Fifelfoo
Bibliographic and Citation style; HQRS & coverage; plagiarism spot check (3); plagiarism style check; Style; Do sources support claims? (FUTON, 3-5ish from memory?) Fifelfoo (talk) 14:15, 6 July 2018 (UTC) Fifelfoo (talk) 16:07, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Bibliographic and Citation Style HQRS & coverage Style Do the sources support the claims?
 * The external link should be brought into style
 * Fixed for you Fifelfoo (talk) 16:07, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed for you Hoover (2008), |series= parameter is expected to take a descriptive type title, "Joes Series on Ancient Drinks," using it for a journal series run would require a similar descriptive function. "Second series"
 * Checked the back linking from citations to bibliography
 * Checked the back linking from citations to bibliography
 * Checked the back linking from citations to bibliography
 * Three plagiarism spot checks by sources
 * Style reading check for plagiarism: consistent style throughout
 * Gilles (1820) used appropriately
 * Primaries: Josephus and Eusebius used appropriately
 * Question for reassurance: Why the reliance on Bellinger (1949)? Seminal work?  Still highly respected?  Unique coverage?
 * Hoover (whose work on a revised chronology is becoming an academic consensus) listed those problems : "this volume is the first book since A R Bellinger's The End of the Seleucids from 1949 to comprehensively deal with the history of the late Seleucid dynasty, from the death of Antiochos IV to the establishment of the Roman province Syria by Pompey".
 * Good work! Fifelfoo (talk) 16:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Bad topic sentence, "The name Philip (Greek Phílippos) means "lover of horses"." Move to be after the sentence with his birth? The new first sentence would make sense then.
 * "His position was insecure." Philip? Topic sentence starting with a pronoun isn't the best for clarity
 * "Philip's attempt weakens" attempt to what?
 * "The king was succeeded" who? Philip?
 * While doing the above I must have checked 3-5ish FUTONs and they did. Fifelfoo (talk) 14:59, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

comments from WereSpielChequers
Support. I have made a couple of tweaks, hope you like them, if not its a wiki
 * "Cleopatra Thea of Egypt became the consort of three successive Syrian kings in 150 BC" three marriages in one year is quite some going perhaps "Cleopatra Thea of Egypt became the consort of three successive Syrian kings in 150, 145 and 137 BC". might be clearer.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  04:41, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It reads well, not a subject that I have expertise in, but happy to support the aspects that I've checked.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  07:09, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It reads well, not a subject that I have expertise in, but happy to support the aspects that I've checked.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  07:09, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Constantine
I made various copyedits as I went through, but generally this reads well, as usual. I trust that Attar-Aram syria has researched the subject exhaustively, as usual, and the article definitely looks like it. Otherwise, I cannot see any readily apparent omissions or errors. Supporting, and awaiting the resolution of the two minor issues mentioned above. Constantine  ✍  08:44, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I have changed "Egyptian" to "Ptolemaic", for accuracy and clarity; the Ptolemies were rulers of Egypt mainly, but not only, and this is an era of dynastic politics, rather than "national" ones.
 * "the Seleucids (who were descended from the Antigonids)" I cannot remember whether this is true; where did that descent come from? In any case, the statement is potentially confusing, because it can be understood that the Seleucids are an offshoot of the Antigonids, whereas they were contemporaries and antagonists. If the descent is partial (due to marriage etc) then please indicate it explicitly. E.g. "the Seleucids (who were partly descended from the Antigonids)".
 * Atkinson 2016 does not appear to be used in the article. If so, please remove it from the "Sources" section.

Closing comments: As has supported, I don't think we need to wait for the resolution of these final issues. They can be addressed on the talk page when returns. Sarastro (talk) 22:55, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Sarastro (talk) 22:56, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.