Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pilgrim at Tinker Creek/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 21:48, 24 March 2012.

Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

 * Nominator(s): María ( yllo submarine ) 17:08, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

"These gold lights veer and retrack, shatter and glide in a series of dazzling splashes, shrinking, leaking, exploding. The ridge's bosses and hummocks sprout bulging from its side; the whole mountain looms miles closer; the light warms and reddens; the bare forest folds and pleats itself like living protoplasm before my eyes, like a running chart, a wildly scrawling oscillograph on the present moment. The air cools; the puppy's skin is hot. I am more alive than all the world."

Annie Dillard published Pilgrim at Tinker Creek in 1974, when she was only 28-years-old. One year later, she won a Pulitzer Prize. The book is one of my personal favorites: it's poetic, yet strangely detached. Scientific, yet entirely personal. While petting puppies and stalking muskrats, Dillard presents an entirely unique voice -- yes, although the book is compared to Walden, it is unique. So here I present the article, which has been through both GAC and PR. I created the stub way back in 2007, but didn't begin development until last fall. Since then it's been fleshed out and tinkered with, so I now believe it's ready for its star. :) María ( yllo submarine ) 17:08, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Sources review
 * Note 22 (The New York Times): it should be noted that this is a login/subscription site.
 * Added. María ( yllo submarine ) 15:11, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Note 46: Can you give a date (rather than a year) for the Saturday Evening Post article?
 * Date added: November 1, 1974. María ( yllo submarine ) 15:11, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * In the References list there are inconsistencies in how page ranges are presented ("pp." or not "pp.")
 * Added "pp." to all. María ( yllo submarine ) 15:11, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Dillard's official website should not be listed as a cited source and as an External link
 * Hm, I'm not sure about this. The official website's homepage is used as an EL, but the sub-page dedicated to her books is what is used as a source.  Does that still count as redundant? María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:11, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Otherwise the sources look excellent – a wide range of scholarly material, much of it recent. I have not been able to spotcheck as I don't have these sources. The only online sources are the NYT (sub required) and a couple of reference lists. Brianboulton (talk) 22:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Support: I peer reviewed this recently. All my comments were in my view properly addressed. Dillard is not too well known on this side of the Atlantic, and I found the article very engaging; it left me wanting to know more about the book and the writer. I have no hesitation in supporting its promotion. Brianboulton (talk) 22:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much, Brian! I have just one question for clarification above. María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:11, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It's such a small point that I'd leave it alone, unless someone else insists. Brianboulton (talk) 15:32, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Images are unproblematic, captions are fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:44, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

(Resolved comments from Crisco 1492 moved to talk)
 * Crisco 1492 comments (leaning support):
 * Support Fantastic read and it makes me want to read the book Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:20, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Crisco! Totally read the book. :) María ( yllo submarine ) 14:31, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Shame shipping costs to my place of residence are sky-high! Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:48, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Comments by Gerda Arendt

I was impressed already when I reviewed it for DYK, more so now. Minor comments:
 * In the lede: "The author has described it as a "book of theology", although she rejects the label of nature writer." - Is that a contradiction?
 * Note really, no. Changed "although" to "and". María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Picture of river: what do you think of placing it next to Summary?
 * Sure, moved. María ( yllo submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Picture of author: date please
 * No date was given, I'm afraid. I asked for permission from her publicist, and was given the photographer's name, but that's it. María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * General: "..." should only follow a word without space if that word is abbreviated, no?
 * I believe I've fixed these per WP:ELLIPSES. María ( yllo submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

"imagination can meet memory in the dark" - inspiring! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:12, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Quite! Thanks for your comments. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Support --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:57, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * That the book was her second, published very soon after her first, a slim volume of poetry, should be made clear either in the lead or the 1st section, or both - at the moment it is right at the end.
 * Sure, I've added a small mention of the poetry volume to the lead. María ( yllo submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * It should be made clearer what she was doing with herself while the book was being written, which as far as I can tell was being a campus wife
 * She was writing full time; no stereotypical subservient wife was she! I added a minor note to this effect in the first section. María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, though I'm not sure subservience is the stereotype. Johnbod (talk) 20:29, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Point taken. ;) María ( yllo submarine ) 21:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * When were the last printed editions? Any foreign editions or translations? Available on Kindle etc?
 * The 1999 Harper Perennial Modern Classics edition is mentioned in the summary, but Dillard's official website lists bibliographical info about later editions. I'm not a fan of separate sections that simply list reprintings/translations; I think it looks crufty.  Any suggestions on how to best present this material? María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well Amazon, even in the UK, makes it clear the book is still in print - 2011 last edition maybe, & that should be said. This "Look inside" copyright notice suggests portions were first published in various magazines, which should be mentioned if correct. The website suggests UK editions, audio books, and several translations, which should be briefly summarized, otherwise it looks US-centric. It's also useful to record some of the foreign language titles in the notes.  Johnbod (talk) 19:29, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, thanks. I'll add some info to the last section regarding several notable editions, as well as translations -- I'll comment here again once I've done so.  María ( yllo  submarine ) 21:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Added info to both the first and last section. Thanks for the great suggestion, I think it really helps. María ( yllo  submarine ) 16:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, those cover it. Johnbod (talk) 18:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The "Summary" section is a bit light on references, in particular for: "One of the most famous passages comes from the beginning of the book...."
 * I agree that that particular note could use a reference (added), but plot summaries largely do not require sources because the source is understood to be the work itself. Let me know if anything else jumps out at you. María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * "the difference between waling with and without a camera." - typo for "walking"? And what are "shiners" just after?
 * "Walking", not "waling" -- doh! Thanks for the catch.  "Shiners" is the actual quote, and I believe it's referring to Shiner (fish) -- added the wl. María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * It's pity we seem to have no photos of the actual creek, but maybe one or two more of Virginia creek life would be good.
 * I know, I tried Flickr and other Creative Commons outlets for a free picture of Tinker Creek, but I couldn't find anything. Even the tourist websites for Roanoke have terrible coverage for what is supposed to be a very scenic creek.  I'm not familiar with the area, so I did as best I could with a nearby creek.  If I come across anything else I'll definitely add it. María ( yllo  submarine ) 21:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Johnbod (talk) 14:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the great comments, Johnbod! I've addressed most of your comments, but I have a question or two above if you don't mind. María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Support, Nice article, and all my points adressed. Johnbod (talk) 18:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Support - with a few nitpicks. Congratulations on another nicely written article; I don't think everyone is aware how difficult it is to write about literature in such a clear manner (I least I think it is ...)
 * "which she had wrote and published when she was an undergraduate." > maybe "which she had written and published..." or "which she wrote and had published" or something like that
 * Sure, changed to the former. María ( yllo submarine ) 14:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * "as evidenced by her references to events from previous chapters as the narrative progresses" > I understand what's being said here, but it tripped me up and I had to think about it for a moment - maybe flip so "as the narrative progresses" comes before the "references to events ... "?
 * I agree, that wording was awkward. I've removed "as the narrative progresses" entirely, but let me know if something more is needed there. María ( yllo  submarine ) 14:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Consider linking Walden (either the pond or the work) in the text for people who don't know about it - I think only because it's important as are the transcendentalists
 * Definitely. Another reviewer suggested removing the redundant links to Thoreau and Walden, but I've added one back to the first section. María ( yllo  submarine ) 14:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * "Seeing and awareness" section > first para ends with "in the book" followed immediately again by "In the book" at the beginning of the second para
 * Fixed. María ( yllo submarine ) 14:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Not bothered too much about this, but I tend to remove the Modern library list from book articles. Just thought I'd mention.
 * I was torn about this, but it's something that's been in the article for years now, and I suppose I'm rather used to seeing it. María ( yllo  submarine ) 14:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think these are odd, but not really bothered. Truthkeeper (talk) 14:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

That's all I could find. Truthkeeper (talk) 20:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support and comments, TK! This was my first non-fiction article -- writing it felt like pulling teeth.  I'm glad you think it's clearly written and worthy of its star. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 14:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * A lot of them feel like pulling teeth and Dillard, in my mind, isn't totally accessible. You've done a very nice job. Truthkeeper (talk) 14:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yay! Thanks. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:05, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. I promoted this to GA, and it got better since then. Well done, Maria. Drmies (talk) 03:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Drmies! :) María ( yllo submarine ) 02:25, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

So, that's 6 supports after more than three weeks, with no outstanding issues. Anything else? María ( yllo submarine ) 02:25, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Closing comment – I have taken the liberty, where possible, of spotchecking the sources using Google Books, for example: (I know this is not the exact edition used). It is healthy for the FAC process in general, for this to done even for established contributors. I found no issues. Graham Colm (talk) 21:45, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.