Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pilot (30 Rock)/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 15:53, 29 August 2008.

Pilot (30 Rock)

 * Nominator(s): [User] Jamie JCA [Talk]
 * previous FAC (04:45, 10 June 2008)

Since this article's previous nomination, improvements have been made to the article and a peer review has been completed. I now believe that the article meets the criteria. I'm happy to resolve any problems anyone finds in the article. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 19:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments. I've sorted them. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 23:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support; all done. Sceptre (talk) 00:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments Sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments on images
 * Image:30 Rock season 1 episode 1.png - The fair use rationale should indicate why it is important to have a shot from this particular scene. Who the copyright holder is also needs to be included in the description.
 * I'm going to replace that image with a more relevant screenshot anyway so i'll change the rationale. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:58, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Changed. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 18:15, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Replacement is better and sufficiently explained. Awadewit (talk) 20:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Image:Rachel Dratch and Jane Krakowski as Jenna DeCarlo & Jenna Maroney.png - The fair use rationale should indicate specifically what the major production change was that the images are illustrating. Who the copyright holder is also needs to be included. I'm also not convinced that this comparison is necessary. The text does not say much more than that one actress replaced the other - must the non-free images be used to convey this? There already is a free image of the actress chosen.
 * Removed -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:58, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I hope these comments help! Awadewit (talk) 15:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 18:15, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image concerns have been addressed. Awadewit (talk) 20:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose—premature nomination. Poorly written; needs serious copy-editing throughout. I suggest withdrawal and the forging of new collaborations with word-nerds who are interested in this area (see edit-summaries of edit-history pages of similar articles to identify possible users). Surgery required just about everywhere.
 * Opening sentence: "The pilot episode of the American situation comedy series 30 Rock was the first episode produced and broadcast for the series." Um ... when is the pilot episode not this? Seems circular and redundant; it's not a good way of engaging the readers first up.
 * done -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The title of the article is a real problem, or maybe I'm being dumb. Switch the parenthetical with "Pilot" and it's a little better.
 * It's a common practice to have the title of pilot articles as Pilot (series names). See Category:Television pilots [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "The idea ... first arose"—did it arise a number of times?
 * done [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The pilot was originally set at a cable news network"—Do you mean "pitched at"? -- I'm not sure what you mean.
 * By "pitched at", do you think that 30 Rock was originally going to air on a cable channel? By "The pilot was originally set at a cable news network" I mean that the actual series was going to be about cable news and not sketch comedy. I'll clear this up in the article -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * WP:CONTEXT breach in the linking of individual years.
 * done [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "The series was then given the green light to enter production in May 2006"—Spot the redundant word.
 * done [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

That's two paras; that's quite enough to represent the issues. Tony  (talk)  08:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "finished third in its timeslot among total viewers as well as adults aged between 18 and 49"—Was I a "total viewer", I wonder? "all" might be better.
 * done -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Use passive voice only where there's a reason to; here, it makes the sentence clunky: "The performances of Jack McBrayer, who plays Kenneth Parcell, and Jane Krakowski, who plays Jenna Maroney, were praised by critics." No, "Critics praised the ...".
 * done -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll go through the article and try and fix the problems and look around for anyone who will copyedit the article. Some has been done by GrahamColm. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 17:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Comments by Moni3
 * I'm not sure I've ever reviewed a TV article for FAC. Consider yourself oh so very lucky, because I laughed out loud twice while reading this article. "Honkey Grandma Be Trippin'" has got to be the best name for a movie ever. And I'm disappointed that the government doesn't hire more chicken nugget inspectors. Seriously - those nuggets require intense vigilance.
 * Ok. I actually looked at previous FAs for television pilots. This article seems to be in good shape in comparison to those. I think I'm leaning toward support for this (and not because it made me laugh).
 * However, apart from Tracy Morgan's antics, Tina Fey's, Alex Baldwin's, and Jane Krakowski's characters aren't described in any detail. What are their characteristics? Who are they now in the pilot (vs. what they will become?). I actually know more about the varied parts Rachel Dratch plays than the qualities of the main characters from this article. Let me know if you have questions. --Moni3 (talk) 13:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. I'm not completely sure how I could tackle this without it seeming forced in. Any suggestions that you have about how I could do this? Would a paragraph in the production section or a new character development section help? -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 18:10, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Whatever cited information you can find that describes the main characters of the show should probably be placed above the paragraph with Rachel Dratch's information. Since that will be then two paragraphs about characters, you could probably create the subheading "Character development". --Moni3 (talk) 18:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll write something in my sandbox first and add it later today. I'll do a casting section instead as it is more relevant and fits more with the information about Dratch. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 19:16, 26 August 2008
 * I've tried to do what you suggested, but i'm not 100% sure it's what you were looking for. I've tried to make the production section less focused on the Dratch re-casting. I'm just about to go through it and clean up the prose. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 21:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak Oppose by karanacs for now. I've done a copyedit on the article, which will hopefully satisfy Tony's concerns.  However, I think the article is not quite comprehensive.  The plot summary leaves much to be desired.  It goes into too much detail (although I've trimmed quite a bit) on some of what Liz is doing but, as Moni points out, does not mention Kenneth and barely describes Jack or Jenna.  Considering that these characters are mentioned prominently later in the article, they should be introduced here, I would think. Karanacs (talk) 21:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tried to add more information on Jack, Jenna and Kenneth in the plot section. I've only mentioned Kenneth in one sentence in that section because he only appears in 2 scenes in the episode, so he didn't really have his own plot, or story, in the episode. -- [User] Jamie JCA [Talk] 22:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The plot summary is not consistent. Sometimes, the name of the actor is given when the character is introduced and sometimes not.  Some characters are described when first introduced (Liz Lemon, the head writer, etc) and some are not (Kenneth).  Try to read over the summary again and see how it would look to someone who has never seen the show. Karanacs (talk) 15:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.