Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Platform game/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 06:17, 31 January 2007.

Platform game
Self-nomination: Since November this article has been almost completely rewritten and tripled in size. It recently passed GA, and nominating for FA was suggested. While there's a definite dearth of sources on the subject of videogames that are completely reliable, particularly regarding claims of origins, and sales figures. I've avoided most discussions of sales and popularity, and reinforced claims of origins with solid dates. The information included should be pretty bulletproof at this point. Furthermore, I've made sure that it is exceptionally well rounded and as neutral as possible, covering games on all platforms, and from all regions. It also does a great deal to establish a detailed history covering lesser known (but important) titles as well as more popular games, and debunks many common misconceptions. Frogacuda 06:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment. I found this article to be an interesting read, but there are a few things that could improve the article:
 * Headings should be lowercase per WP:MOS. E.g. "Platformers into the present" instead of "Platformers Into the Present"
 * Get rid of the list at the bottom. The article already mentions all of the notable games and a long list doesn't belong in a FA. --Maitch 14:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Response: I think this is a good call. Done. Frogacuda 18:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I would like to add that the article is fairly inconsistant with capitalization. Sometimes it's "Hop and bob" and other times it's "Hop and Bob". Sometimes it's "Run and gun" and other times it's "Run and Gun". Sometimes it's "platformer" and other times it's "Platformer". --Maitch 21:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Response: Fixed. I was actually working on this as you posted it. Frogacuda 21:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Conditional support There are way too many pictures. I do sympathize that images are needed for illustration more than some articles, but still, gotta cut it down to essentials. Otherwise, looks good! 69.253.238.27 20:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 20:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Response: Is there a good frame of reference for this in Wiki's manual? The article covers a lot of territory and only offers images for the most substantial games. I worry that if I cut it down to far, the article will be more difficult follow. Also any reference for prioritizing what would be cut would be helpful. Frogacuda 21:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I know I just picked this thing to bits, but this is FAC and no-one's gonna cut you any slack. The article needs a complete fine-comb, taking out any "some might say"s and informal language. Content wise, there's a lot here, but some feels POV and other pieces need citation. Good luck with the whole thing, and if you can address the things I've highlighted, I'll change to a tentative support. Seegoon 23:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Object: I'm more of a peer-reviewer, but every little helps, and I'll give you my personal input. As it stands I'm not sure I can support it.
 * You wikilink jumping puzzle twice in the first two paragraphs of the lead, which I don't see as necessary.
 * "The genre has been the result of a great deal of cross-polination of ideas between..." - 'cross-polination'? For one, its meaning is a little obscure to me, and secondly, I'd put that through a spellchecker as it doesn't ring true to me.
 * You misspell 'fantasy' at the end of the lead.
 * "While some of the ideas came from earlier games, they used these ideas in a new way." - this sounds a little biased and I'd consider rewording it.
 * "Space Panic, a 1980 arcade release, is sometimes credited as the first platform game[6]," - place the citation after the punctuation here.
 * "(see Comical Action Game for more info)." - some editors would object to the use of parentheses here. It doesn't bother me personally, but I think the tone is too informal regardless.
 * "It was, however, remarkably ahead of its time, and, at its best moments, a foreshadowing of what would follow." - again, this doesn't sound completely neutral, and should it remain this powerful a statement, it'll require citation.
 * "influencial" - influential.
 * "1984 smash Pac-Land." - 'smash' is probably a little too informal.
 * "with Pitfall! being the most apparent influence." - a) 'Pitfall!' probably needs italicisation, and the statement needs citation.
 * "and went on to sell over 40 million copies according to the 1999 Guinness Book of World Records." - couldn't you turn this statement into a citation?
 * "Sega attempted to ape this success with their Alex Kidd series," - 'ape'? Inappropriate tone.
 * Looking through, you need to put a full stop at the end of each sentence in the boxes beneath the pictures and screenshots.
 * I think "Second generation side-scrollers" is fatally undercited.
 * "usually involving some sort of brightly colored anthropomorphic animal that spewed movie quotes in a nasal voice." - seriously, this isn't the sort of tone which gets articles FA status. I wish it did, because it makes me titter.
 * "but 2D graphics are usually lumped in with" - tone again.
 * "as a precursor to Jumping Flash!)[24] ." - citation after punctutation.
 * "(while the developer claimed that all characters were "rendered in glorious 3D",[28] a less misleading term would be "pre-rendered")" - this is a pretty derogatory tone to take.
 * "to its predecessor, most would argue that it wasn't quite a platformer." - you're not gonna be able to pass FA with "most would argue"; you need citation or to rethink the sentiment.
 * "(a risky move at the time, as Naughty Dog was a B-grade developer at the time, hot off the heels of the abysmal bomb Way of the Warrior)" - tone.
 * I think the last paragraph in "The third dimension" needs citation, which shouldn't be too hard to come across.
 * "Some would argue that many modern 3D platformers" - I think Wikipedia calls these Weasel Words. The sentence is cited, so I'd advise you remove "would", leaving "some argue".
 * I'm not sure, but I think "See also" sections usually come after references. Don't take my word for it though. WP:MOS might tell you.
 * Response There is some definite informal tone, particularly the paragraph regarding attitude. There's a few of your objections I would contest, however: Cross-pollination is used figuratively, of course, but its meaning is clear, and I think it's the best way to express that thought. I don't see any reason to avoid the word "ape," either.
 * Also, things like "while some of these ideas came from earlier games, they used them in a new way" shouldn't come off as bias. To say otherwise would be to suppose that the very genre that the article is about doesn't exist. In fact the statement was just include to give credit to the precursor's to the genre. I'll be working on the rest during the next day. Frogacuda 23:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * ResponseOk, I think I got all the issues you mentioned, except for the ones I addressed above that I don't find problematic. Frogacuda 23:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.