Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/RSPB Dearne Valley Old Moor/archive1

RSPB Dearne Valley Old Moor

 * Nominator(s): Jimfbleak - talk to me?  13:56, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Another in my occasional series about English bird reserves. Quite a short one this time, since its emergence from an industrial wasteland means that it lacks the archaeology and military history that occur in coastal sites Jimfbleak - talk to me?  13:56, 2 April 2019 (UTC)


 * This is a great story! I've started reviewing and will comment soon. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk &#124; contribs) 16:37, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Support. Lovely article. A pleasure to read, well illustrated, and thoroughly referenced from what seem authoritative sources. I might hyphenate the attributive "high quality" in the first para of History, and use a dash rather than a hyphen for "9.30 am-5.00 pm" but that's all I can find to be pernickety about. –  Tim riley  talk   19:01, 2 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks Tim, tweaked as suggested Jimfbleak - talk to me?  19:46, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Support I can't get enough of rewilding stories, and this one is beautifully told. I do see a few issues, however:
 * “There is a potential threat to the reserve from climate change and flooding, although it may also benefit from new habitat creation beyond the reserve and improved accessibility.” - This sentence could be read as implying that climate change would be the cause of these benefits.
 * "a large "Mere" for wintering wildfowl" - I don't know what a Mere is or why it is in quotations. This term could use some explanation.
 * "100 kw biomass converter" should be kW, not kw.
 * "fish biomass" - should link to biomass (ecology) not biomass
 * "35% said that nature" - Per MOS:NUMNOTES, avoid starting a sentence with a figure.
 * "Consider adding this to article to Category:Constructed wetlands.
 * Best wishes, Clayoquot (talk &#124; contribs) 06:06, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
 * thanks for your comments and support. I've tweaked the last sentence of the lead, replaced "Mere" with the simpler "lake", and made the other tweaks as suggested, thanks again Jimfbleak - talk to me?  10:35, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:53, 6 April 2019 (UTC)


 * , thanks as always for your diligence Jimfbleak - talk to me?  05:45, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

FunkMonk

 * Will have a look soon, first there appears to be a bunch of duplinks, which cna be highlighted with this script:
 * I didn't realise there was a new script, done now Jimfbleak - talk to me?  10:55, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The new one makes a distinction between the intro, article body, and captions as well, so it is a big improvement. FunkMonk (talk) 14:59, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, much better Jimfbleak - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I wonder why the etymology of "ings" is relevant here, as it's not the subject of the article, and the info is not even found in the actual Denaby Ings article? Not that it's not interesting (the Danish equivalent is "eng", so I found it amusing), it just doesn't seem to be the right place for it.
 * Removed note as requested Jimfbleak - talk to me?  10:55, 7 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "with villages developing on the drier sandstone ridges above the flood plain" Any idea when?
 * added at least the late Saxon period <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The visitor centre looks like an old industrial building. Is it original, or something built later?
 * added that the RSPB created it from existing farm buildings, with source <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "Royal Society for the Protection of Birds" Could be spelled out and linked at first mention in the article body too.
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "waders by grazing by cattle" Through grazing? The by by sounds a bit clunky.
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * This is a really cool sign post I think, I wonder if it adds more than the last photo of the door, but up to you.
 * I'd wondered about using that myself, changed now <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "although there also a potential" Missing "is"?
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * , many thanks, all done I think <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Support - everything nicely fixed. FunkMonk (talk) 09:06, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for your review, help and support <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  13:20, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Sources review

 * Spotchecks not carried out
 * All external links are working
 * Formats: just one small issue. For ref 15 the source is a 119-page report, but the ref. has no pagination.
 * Quality and reliability: the sources all appear to be of the appropriate standards of quality and reliability. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks Brian. In a way, the whole report is relevant, but I take your point and I've paginated for the start of the conclusions <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  12:41, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

 * Just a few things:
 * "and the wetlands at Old Moor were made possible by the removal of soil to cover an adjacent polluted site." I'm not sure if I like "were made possible". Many things are possible. Could it be "and the removal of soil to cover an adjacent polluted site generated (or similar verb) the wetlands at Old Moor"?
 * "Enabled the creation of" <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * "A calling male" (lede and body). Could the lay reader be helped with a link for "calling"?
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * "Over the next two centuries, especially following the arrival of the railway in 1840, the whole area became dominated by its heavy industries.[2][3]" I might cut "whole" as surplus.
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * "enclosed". A link might be helpful for American readers.
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * "The visitor centre and its café are open daily from 9.30 am–5.00 pm, except for 25 and 26 December, with the reserve itself staying open until 8 pm from April to October." I'm going to be really picky and suggest you haven't addressed whether the reserve is open beyond the visitor centre in winter.
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * "waders" is not linked on first use.::
 * Linked in body as well as lead now <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Can anything be said about the mileage of the trails?
 * Added this with a new ref to the RSPB accessibility statement <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting, as always. I particularly liked the post-industrial use.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:41, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Wehwalt, many thanks for review and comments, all done now I think <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  06:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support--Wehwalt (talk) 13:21, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Many thanks <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  15:24, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Comments from JM
I've not been, but it's only an hour's drive away and I'm an RSPB member, so no doubt I'll end up there eventually!
 * "The "moor" part of "Old Moor" may refer to the old meaning of a marshy area, possibly less fertile than the alluvium of the flood plain." This threw me; first, it's words-as-words, so should use italics; second, I thought you meant an old meaning of the phrase "a marshy area"; third, I don't really know what is meant to be "less fertile", given that the first part of the sentence is about words. Can I recommend something like "The moor of Old Moor may derive from the Middle English moor, meaning a marshy area. When given the name, the area was possibly less fertile than it is today." or "The name Old Moor may derive from an archaic meaning of moor, referring to a marshy area. When given the name, the area was possibly less fertile than it is today."
 * Italicised now, and tweaked in line with your suggestion, to make clearer, although I've reworded to make it clearer what it meant <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The picture of the visitor centre doesn't really have anything to do with the landscape section, and it clashes with the infobox. Perhaps you could add it as a second image to the infobox?
 * I can't see that clash, but this infobox only supports 1 photo plus 1 map anyway. Moved to history, feel free to remove if that doesn't work on your screen <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "rendered the River Dearne lifeless" This is rhetorical- it won't have been literally lifeless, surely?
 * Changed to "biologically dead", which is exactly what the source says. This river was massively polluted with a colour reflecting what was currently being dumped in it, so I'm reluctant to say something that contradicts the source. <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * In the history section, I'd like to perhaps hear a little more about why the RSPB did eventually take it on, and especially about what the Dearne Valley Land Partnerships is. Also, you introduce an abbreviation for the DVLP at the second mention. <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  16:01, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Expanded both, and put all the DVLP stuff together <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  16:00, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Final paragraph of "management": would it be worth wikilinking those various other reserves? Don't be scared of redlinks - if they're notable, a link would be a good addition!
 * Some are tiny, but I've linked the larger ones <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised at the choice of a picture of a great tit, given that they're not even mentioned in the article?
 * The image, taken on the reserve, was already there, replaced by a bittern now <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "A number of rare flies have been recorded, including three species otherwise known in the UK only from a few sites in the East Anglian fenland" Species names with links, please? Again, nothing wrong with a redlink, and if it's a bluelink, it'll probably be one of the few to the species in question! In all honesty, these are exactly the kind of links I'd be clicking. (I was clicking links to the moth species, for example!)
 * Done, although I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the articles! <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Any interesting fungi recorded?
 * Couldn't find anything, and this suggests there isn't much <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "RSPB Saltholme" Worth a link?
 * Done <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)


 * If the Moore et al. soure is proceedings of a conference, surely you should be citing the particular paper/chapter rather than the volume as a whole? I've changed this in the article, but please double-check what I've done.
 * That looks good, thanks <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  11:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

An enjoyable read! Josh Milburn (talk) 16:18, 19 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Josh Milburn, it's a nice, fairly compact reserve, so could be worth the trip. Thanks for reviewing. Family are descending on us for Easter so it may be a couple of days before I get time to respond, I'll ping you when I do. <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  17:32, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Josh Milburn, I think it's all done now, <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  16:00, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Leaning support. The images still look a little cluttered on my screen. Template:Multiple images can be useful to neaten things up, as can shifting some to the left. I'll leave that up to you, though. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:33, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Josh Milburn I've tried and failed to integrate the multiple images template with the infobox, and I don't like left-aligned, so I've removed the visitor centre image. Does that help? If that doesn't work on your display, please feel free to reposition or remove as you see fit. I'm struggling a bit to fix this because I'm obviously not seeing what you are on your screen <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  07:31, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry - I was meaning in the article proper, not in the infobox. I've added an example, but feel free to remove it if you don't like it. We decided to go down to Old Moor today; I just got back. We heard the bitterns, but didn't see them. A grass snake was another highlight. I'm sure we'll be back! Josh Milburn (talk) 13:27, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Josh Milburn Apologies for my lack of comprehension, that looks great. Always a lot easier to hear bitterns than see  them, despite their size. I once had a close but stationary bittern in my scope and invited others to take a look; so well camouflaged some people still couldn't pick it out from the reeds! Grass snake is good though, and there should be some waders going through soon <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> -  talk to me?  06:17, 22 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Support - Just two points for you to consider, but I'll leave them entirely up to you, as it's each to their own on IB contents:


 * It's each to their own for IBs, but I've always though co-ordinates a particular waste of time, given they are positioned directly above the IB itself (ie. They stand alone as a factoid already). I'd advise you take it out, but leave it entirely to you to ignore me.
 * On the flip side, I would think that the area and elevation should be in there. Again, feel free to ignore – these two points are just suggestions
 * As a huge aside, our cats are named after British former Prime Ministers: the Marquess of Rockingham is the youngest of our batch (Rocky for short), alongside Dizzy (Disraeli) and Gladstone.
 * I once shared a train journey from London to the Lake District with Michael Foot and his dog, Dizzy, who was as good as gold. Why the Labour leader named his dog after a Tory PM I did not presume to ask.  Tim riley  talk   20:45, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

A very enjoyable read and eminently supportable. - SchroCat (talk) 21:05, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 * SchroCat, many thanks for review and support. I've added area and elevation now as suggested. It looks as if the coordinates automatically repeat, and they are needed for the pushpin map, so I think we're stuck with that (ps I love the cat names. My daughter's are Woody and Archie, after jazz musicians <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - talk to me?  07:18, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 13:57, 27 April 2019 (UTC)