Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Real (Ivy Queen album)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:Ian Rose 10:01, 7 August 2013 (UTC).

Real (Ivy Queen album)

 * Nominator(s):  Diva    Knockouts   16:57, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Real is the fourth studio album by Puerto Rican reggaetón recording artist Ivy Queen, released on November 16, 2004, by Universal Music Latino. On Queen's debut full-length English-language studio album, she collaborated with hip hop and fellow reggaetón artists Hector El Father, Fat Joe, Getto & Gastam, La India, Gran Omar and Mickey Perfecto. The album was primarily produced by Rafi Mercenario, and included guest production by American producer Swizz Beatz, Puerto Rican producers Ecko, Noriega, Monserrate and DJ Nelson. The executive producers were Goguito "Willy" Guadalupe, Gran Omar and Queen. I am nominating this article for featured article status because I feel it that meets the criteria. After a successful GAN, it was placed for peer review and received one as so. After some time, the article received an excellent and much needed copyedit by. I proudly present my first FAC nomination, Real. Diva   Knockouts   16:57, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Because I see several issues with inaccurate representation of Spanish-language sources (I looked at these two), and because User:Moonriddengirl/DivaKnockouts is still pending, my first question would be if User:Miniapolis speaks Spanish, or merely smoothed out prose without being able to consult the Spanish-language sources, and my second suggestion would be that someone undertake a thorough review of sourcing. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 17:27, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, Sandy. No, I know a few words of Spanish but don't speak it; I copyedited the article because it was next in line on the GOCE requests page. Not wanting to muddy the waters, I wouldn't have taken it if I thought there were copyvio issues.  Mini  apolis  01:49, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Inaccurate representation of Spanish-language sources"? Really? Please explain. —  Diva    Knockouts   19:11, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it's quite clear: Sandy is referring to possible misrepresenting of facts or opinions presented in the Spanish-language sources. I would like to add that, based on your DYK work and the non-formal CCI listed above, a spotcheck for copyright violations by translating the sources word-for-word is also needed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:03, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sandy said she looked at the two above but did not provide an example. How am I suppose to understand what she is referring too. If Sandy doesn't know Spanish how can she tell if something is misinterpreted? Google Translate is a very good translator as it does misinterpret things. —  Diva    Knockouts   00:13, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sandy never said she doesn't speak Spanish; she seems, from my experience, quite fluent. She was asking if your copyeditor spoke Spanish and could thus consult the sources (and perhaps spot close paraphrasing or representation issues) or was just basically polishing the prose. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:58, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Google translate can be terrible, especially for paragraphs. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I meant Google Translate is not a very good translator. Also, Sandy said she specially checked those two sources. —  Diva    Knockouts   01:07, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but where does that imply she doesn't speak Spanish? That she checked 2 sources on her holiday, found issues, and has asked for someone to give a detailed spot check means there are quite likely issues with close paraphrasing and source representation that you should be dealing with, rather than misreading her comments and arguing about what she meant... particularly as I have already told you in no uncertain terms. If I were you, I'd find a fluent speaker of Spanish who has time to do spotchecks, and if they find widespread issues you should withdraw this nomination. If there are just a few, you can fix them quickly; the delegates may not mind. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks User:Miniapolis (and User:Crisco 1492) for clarifying. Yes, the concerns relate to the issue that occurred at Featured article candidates/Grace Sherwood/archive1, where because a competent copyeditor had smoothed out the prose, reviewers failed to notice the copyvios (all of the prose was at a level higher than was typical for the nominator, but reviewers and delegates thought that was because a competent copyeditor had been there, hence many failed to check the sources and detect the copyvio).  In this case, in my very quick search I didn't see any copyvio, but my check was not thorough (limited time).  I am additionally concerned about accurate representation of sources in this case ... by smoothing the prose, it is possible subtle inaccuracies are introduced even by a competent copyeditor (as Miniapolis certainly appears to be).  I am out of time for the moment, but will again go through and look for samples the next time I have a free block of time.  (Diva, yes I speak and comprehend Spanish at a fluent level, although reading takes me a bit longer, and my written Spanish is not fluent as I learned Spanish "in the street" and in the workplace ... I believe you should recall this as I detected multiple copyvios in your past DYK work, although I have been unable to complete the CCI with Moonriddengirl because of time constraints).  Perhaps you could ask HcHc to check for accurate representation of sources if it takes me more than a few days to return to this.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 14:58, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Oppose and recommend withdrawal. Aside from the significant concerns about use of Spanish-language sources above, I did a random check of English-language sources and every one I checked had problems. Just the first three are listed below. Additionally, there are statements and whole sections in the article that lack citations altogether (see for example the first section in Recording and Production). This is far removed from FA standards, and at the minimum needs a thorough audit of all sources (Spanish and English) by an uninvolved editor.
 * Ref 4a, close paraphrasing:
 * Article text "she was dropped from the Sony label"
 * Source text: "was dropped from Sony"


 * Ref 4b, failed verification:
 * Article text: "Her next single, 'Ritmo Latino', and its parent album failed to chart."
 * Source text: Mentions the album "fizzled" but nowhere does it say that the album failed to chart.


 * Ref 11, failed verification, and not a reliable source:
 * Article text: "The following year, Queen released a platinum edition of the album with extra tracks, including 'Papi Te Quiero' and 'Tu No Puedes'"
 * Source text: First of all, you used an ad in a magazine as a source, not the magazine itself. Second, the ad doesn't support these two songs being "extra tracks".

Please withdraw this. -- Laser brain  (talk)  16:02, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Where on WP does it say that an ad in a magazine is not a reliable source? I would just like to know. —  Diva    Knockouts   22:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Withdraw nomaination I will work more on the article and present it back before my peers in the future. Thank you for your comments Sandy and Laser brain. —  Diva    Knockouts   22:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.