Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Richard Hakluyt


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 13:35, August 2, 2007.

Richard Hakluyt
I'd like to nominate this article for Featured Article status. It was originally based on material in the 1911 edition of Encyclopædia Britannica, but I expanded it based on other sources and added images, and it was given Good Article status on 25 April 2007. Cheers, Jacklee 13:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC) Karanacs 14:54, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support. Prose is good, very well referenced.  I think I'd loose some of the red links though, maybe either start stubs or unwikify.  Cricket02 14:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * See comments below. Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support. Very well referenced and well written. Two issues; you may want to remove the size parameter on some of the images (to let the user choose thumbnail size and because the images tend to bunch up for me in the Later Life section). Second is that I'd remove the See also section; the only link is already present in the text. Otherwise, good work! CloudNine 15:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Question – can you explain what you mean about the size parameter? If I remove it, won't the images be too big for the article since the original sizes of some of them are quite large? Thanks also for your complimentary remarks about the article. Cheers, Jacklee 16:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * For most users, the thumbnail size is 200px (it defaults to that if no size is given), whereas some of the images in this article have 300px+. Purely a comestic change. CloudNine 16:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: removing the size parameters makes the thumbnails very small, though. Cheers, Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment
 * There are a few areas where citations are needed. I have marked these with  tags.
 * Added the necessary citations. Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This sentence does not read well. "At the age of 30, being acquainted with "the chiefest captaines at sea, the greatest merchants, and the best mariners of our nation",[10] he was selected as chaplain and secretary to accompany Stafford, now English ambassador at the French court, to Paris in 1583."
 * Question: what exactly is unclear about the sentence? It reads all right to me. Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The article does not always appear to have a neutral POV. For example, "his important work" -- this needs to be directly sourced or "important" should be removed;  other similar words: "monumental," "invaluable treasure", "Unfortunately"
 * Comment: I think that it is clear from the context that the work of Hakluyt's referred to was "important". It was presented to the Queen of England, and supported the colonization of North America, which eventually took place. Also, it seems appropriate to describe the squandering of a person's fortune by his only son as "unfortunate". I haven't any strong feelings about this adjective being deleted though. Have deleted the sentence using the terms "monumental" and "invaluable treasure". Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The red links should be removed
 * Deleted the red links. Why, though? Is there something in the guidelines on featured articles about not having red links? Isn't it better to have red links, in case new articles are created by other editors? Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Need a comma after a single year (In 1588,)
 * Comment: I think this is just a matter of style. There's nothing really wrong with omitting the comma. Having a comma at that position sometimes causes the reader to mentally pause when there is no need to. Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Full dates should be wikilinked
 * Wikilinked the full dates! Jacklee 18:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Question: I'm wondering whether to recategorize the article under Category:English travel writers, which is a sub-category of Category:English non-fiction writers. Comments, anyone? Jacklee 06:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment There are some single years that shouldn't be wikilinked (including in the footnotes) and "two miles southeast of Leominster" could include a metric equivalent. Epbr123 23:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Corrected the matters referred to. Cheers, Jacklee 00:49, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Carabinieri 18:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support. Really well-written. I just have a few concerns:
 * "Yatton" needs to be linked, and "emulments" currently links to a disambig page
 * Comment: There's an article called "Yatton, Herefordshire", but it says that Yatton is eight miles northwest of Leominster instead of two miles southeast as stated by one of the citations in the footnote, so I don't know what to make of it. I'll remove the link to "emoluments" as I don't think any of the articles listed in the "Compensation" disambiguation page are on point. Jacklee 18:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Although this was his only visit to the Continent in his life, he was angered to hear the limitations of the English in terms of travel being discussed in Paris." What exactly does the last part of this sentence mean?
 * Comment: This was from Encyclopædia Britannica. I believe it means that when he was in Paris, he was angry to hear about other people criticizing the fact that the English were not well-travelled – although this was rather ironic because his presence in Paris was his one and only visit to Continental Europe. Jacklee 18:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "In 1605 he secured the prospective living of James Town, the intended capital of the intended colony of Virginia." Why not Jamestown?
 * Comment: Again, this was from Encyclopædia Britannica. I realize that the modern spelling is "Jamestown", but did not change the spelling in case "James Town" was how the town was spelled back in Hakluyt's time. Jacklee 18:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why do we need the see also section? The Hakluyt Society is already linked in the "Later life" section.--
 * Comment: Yes, I suppose it can be taken out. Thanks for your comments. Jacklee 18:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * MOS is about to require a space after "c.".
 * Comment: Is this definite? Perhaps we should wait until the MOS is actually changed. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's definite; on Monday. Tony
 * OK, fixed it. Jacklee 10:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Awkward joining of ideas in the opening sentence. "... writer, who is ...".
 * Rephrased the opening sentence. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why is "English" linked twice in that sentence. Remove the first link: who needs to look at the article on "England", that little-known country?
 * Removed link from first occurrence of "English". Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Shift comma after "Oxford" to after "1588". Do we need the word "English" in that sentence?
 * Comment: The shifting of the comma would distort the sense of the sentence. Hakluyt was chaplain and secretary to Sir Edward Stafford between 1583 and 1588. These were not the dates when he was studying at Westminster School and Christ Church, Oxford. And yes, I think the point does need to be made that Sir Edward was the English ambassador (and not the ambassador of some other country) to the French court. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * OK Tony 07:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Then after all of this English English English, you tell us he was Welsh?
 * Comment: There's a significant difference between someone being of a particular nationality and having ancestors from elsewhere. I'm Singaporean but of Chinese extraction (my grandparents came from China). Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Colon is wrong after "extraction".
 * Changed the colon to a semicolon. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "two miles (about 3.2km)"—No, "two miles" is less precise than "3.2 km", so why "about"? Remove it. Space before "km". (MOS)
 * Comment: The source cited gave the distance in miles and I converted the figure to kilometres pursuant to a suggestion by Epbr123 (see above), so the figure in kilometres is less accurate. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it has to be converted, and must be to a similar level of precision. 0.1 of a km is not as accurate as a whole mile? You're kidding me. I think you're misunderstanding the concept. Remove "about".
 * Removed the word "about", but am afraid I don't understand quite what you mean. Two miles is equivalent to 3.2... km, with non-repeating numerals after the number "2". So by rounding the number to 3.2 km, isn't 2 miles equivalent to "about" 3.2 km? Jacklee 10:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * By that logic, we'd need to insert "about" in every conversion to and from metrics and imperial. No, we accept the conversion without "about". For small values, a different level of precision is allowed (one decimal place, here, as opposed to no decimal place), but this is a separate issue.
 * Comment: OK, thanks for the clarification. Jacklee 15:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "A person named Hugo Hakelute was elected"—Spot the three redundant words.
 * Disagree with you there. The words "A person named" arguably indicate that there is some uncertainty as to whether Hugo Hakelute was an ancestor of Hakluyt. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I see now what you're trying to convey, but it's a "long-shot" to expect readers to get it. Can you make it more explicit in the text if this meaning is necessary?
 * Added more words to make the meaning clearer. Jacklee 10:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Records also show that"—"Also" is redundant, but the whole phrase is, since you provide a reference to the records at the end of the statement.
 * Comment: No, the phrase is not redundant. The reference at the end of the statement merely states that there are other records showing that Thomas Hakeluytt was a ward of Henry VIII and Edward VI. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Then we need a reference to the "records" that you're referring to in the text, as well. Then get rid of the phrase.
 * Comment: Would love to, but unfortunately the reference at the end of the statement doesn't state what the actual records are, only that there are other records. Cheers, Jacklee 10:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't this a problem, then? Tony 11:24, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Well, it depends on how much precision is needed for Featured Articles. The existing reference is to John Winter Jones's introduction to Richard Hakluyt's Divers Voyages Touching the Discovery of America and the Islands Adjacent (London: Hakluyt Society, 1850). No doubt he or someone else that he trusted did the necessary research. The full text of the book is available on Google Books, so I read the relevant pages personally. If the reference was to some random website I would say a better reference would be needed, but I feel that a citation to a book published by the Hakluyt Society should be sufficient for Wikipedia. Much as I would like to, I certainly don't have the time, knowledge or resources to go hunting around for original 16th-century documents. Cheers, Jacklee 15:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not reading further. Please fix the whole article, not just these examples. Get someone else who's fresh to it to help out. Tony 12:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Anyone who's willing to help proofread and improve the article is welcome to do so. I've given up listing articles for peer-review because nothing seems to happen with them. Thanks for your comments. Jacklee 18:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "Richard Hakluyt" was promoted to Featured Article status today. Thanks again to everyone who took time to give comments on improving the article! Cheers, Jacklee 20:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.