Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rolls-Royce R/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 18:00, 24 November 2009.

Rolls-Royce R

 * Nominator(s): Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    00:13, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this article for Featured Article status as I feel with much recent work carried out that it now meets the FAC criteria subject to review. A very constructive peer review at WikiProject Aviation/Peer review/Rolls-Royce R has been closed and archived with comments being actioned to the benefit of the article. I must acknowledge the tireless input of User:Red Sunset over the past few months, he has concentrated on copy editing, improvement of my grammar and formatting of the table.

If I may comment on the revision history of this article, a large unreferenced text dump was added some 18 months ago, this was pasted in by the owner of a dying website who later contacted me by e-mail as he was pleased that I was working on improving it. Recent work, on obtaining the sources that he originally used, has concentrated on improving the referencing of this information and then expanding on the remarkable human story that lay behind this apparently obscure aero engine with a strange name. A predecessor of the Rolls-Royce Merlin, I felt that the R engine deserved to have some effort expended on it. The article is stable apart from recent improvement work which has now come to a practical end. Wherever possible technical terms have been wikilinked or explained with footnotes and plain text. Many thanks. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    00:13, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Support: 1c, 2c. An impressive use of exhibit objects. Fifelfoo (talk) 00:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 1c: Support as a result of evaluation of article and discussion at here regarding source exhaustion.
 * 2c: A couple of fix-its, some style suggestions, which sadly spiralled out of control (in terms of length), so I moved it to Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Rolls-Royce R/archive1
 * Note: 3 2c issues remain, all relating to "Further Reading". I can't find the material myself to work them into fullcites, see Talk:. Suggest Fullcite or remove. Fifelfoo (talk) 00:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC) Actioned by removal. 00:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your constructive observations, I was never really happy with the 'Further reading' section, it was a remnant from the website, will try to identify that material but it's probably gone on a bonfire by now. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    00:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. I think this is a great article, and a credit to those who've put so much effort into it. I do have a couple of things I think need to be fixed though:


 * "During the World War II years, he was responsible for the upkeep of Blue Bird K4 and the spare R engines, but unknown to him they had been sold along with K3. Villa eventually took the three R engines to Thomson & Taylor at Brooklands ...". I can't get my head round this. Villa was responsible for the upkeep of the engines but he didn't know they'd been sold? Campbell was paying Villa to maintain engines that he no longer owned?


 * "It had been intended to also use the identical sister aircraft, S1596, for the attempt ...". Why "also"?

--Malleus Fatuorum 02:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, Malcolm Campbell was apparently a very strange person, what I have written is exactly as quoted (with words rearranged to avoid copyvio). Although this started as an engine article the unfolding story behind it became very engrossing. I have tried to keep it relevant to the engine although I noticed that the linked articles such as Sir Malcolm Campbell and Donald Campbell are not currently telling the full story. Donald had to buy the engines and boat back out of his late father's estate for instance. Leo Villa's article is a one-liner. I don't really have any interest in the Campbells but I will try to improve their articles in the future.


 * On S1596, both aircraft were intended to be used as record breakers but this aircraft had an accident which is explained with plain text and a cite. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    03:07, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Finally managed to log in!!! Thanks for the thorough going-over Malleus (the article that is!) – some blindingly obvious fixes now that you've implemented them! Cheers. --Red  Su ns et    20:11, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. Well-done article! - Ahunt (talk) 02:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thankyou, any bad parts? Just to note that 'RS' and myself are suffering internet problems, especially with Wikipedia, might be a server traffic thing. Nimbus  (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    03:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks very much. I reckon it would be quicker to use Royal Mail and post my edits right now! ;-) --Red Su ns et    20:11, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. As the editor who probably put Nimbus and RS through more grief than needed during their peer review, I can wholeheartedly recommend this article. It is an extensive and complete article that has the additional bonus of telling an interesting story. -SidewinderX (talk) 12:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks SidewinderX – no problems, someone's gotta' keep us in check! --Red Su ns et    20:11, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I've taken the liberty of modifying some of the grammer; eg: "The first configuration drawing of the "Racing H" engine, based on the Buzzard design (itself a 5:6-scaled Rolls-Royce Kestrel), was sent to R. J. Mitchell of Supermarine on 3 July 1928 to proceed with the new S.6 Schneider Trophy seaplane layout,[2]|undefined shortly after which the name was changed to R for "Racing". Is a little wordy and confusing - it is much easier to state that Mitchell was able to start design on the S6, and the last part of this sentence implies that the name of Mitchells' design was changed to R. Finally, that the Buzzard was an upscaled Kestral should simply be footnoted, rather than breaking the sentence's flow. Hope this helps. Minorhistorian (talk) 23:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose on criterion 3
 * Striking oppose. Awadewit (talk) 15:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Renault 190HP conrods fig5.jpg - This, which is the original source for File:ArticulatedConnectingRod.jpg, needs detailed publication information for the manual.
 * Striking as this has been removed from the article (I think). Awadewit (talk) 20:29, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I can confirm removal Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    20:44, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * File:Supermarine S.6B ExCC.jpg - Please add a date and author and fix the link.


 * File:Rolls-Royce R Engine.jpg - This non-free image needs a fair use rationale.
 * Replaced by File:Rolls-Royce R Side View.jpg - I can't find evidence that this is a NASA image at the source. Awadewit (talk) 20:32, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In the lower left corner of the original image is the text 'Paris Office N.A.C.A. NACA was renamed NASA. Hope that is ok. Could also be tagged US PD Gov as it is from a national museum. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    20:44, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Now permission templated as PD-USGov replacing PD-USGov-NASA. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    22:58, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note of this action left on reviewer's talk page per FAC instructions. Nimbus  (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    00:04, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Awadewit (talk) 15:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Bluebird land speed record car 1935 rc10413.jpg - The message from the Florida Archives needs to be sent through OTRS to confirm it.
 * Striking as this has been removed from the article. Awadewit (talk) 20:29, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I look forward to striking this oppose soon. Awadewit (talk) 22:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Easy to get lulled into a false sense of security by using Commons images.


 * File:Rolls-Royce R Engine.jpg was tagged for deletion by me some weeks ago as it was clearly public domain and I transferred it to Commons. It was deleted but the file code still links to the WP version? This  shows that it was deleted on 3 November 2009. Perhaps the editor only deleted the talk page? I have seen this problem before. Would appreciate some help from an admin here as I don't have the access to fix it. In hindsight I should have renamed the Commons version.


 * Have contacted the deleting admin to ask if he can help. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    13:24, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Have now renamed this image as File:Rolls-Royce R Side View.jpg on Commons and have tagged the duplicate for deletion. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    14:56, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * File:ArticulatedConnectingRod.jpg - I will contact the original uploader who appears to possess this WW I manual. Uploader contacted.


 * Replaced with one of my own photographs, File:Rolls-Royce Merlin Cylinders.JPG, as the original uploader appears reluctant to assist. I believe that this is a more informative photo anyway as it shows several features mentioned in the text. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    13:24, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * File:Supermarine S.6B ExCC.jpg - Will have a look at its permission and linking. Traced the source, provided image link and source link. No photographer details given, added the date of 1931 as this aircraft is identified as a Supermarine S.6B with the tail number of S1596 that was only used in this year's competition.


 * File:Bluebird land speed record car 1935 rc10413.jpg - It appears that this has been through the system according to its permission, not familiar with OTRS procedure. It is possible that I have an image of my own of a replica but I fear that it is not very good.


 * Replaced with another of my own images, File:Campbell Railton Blue Bird Replica.JPG, this is an exact replica of the original car on display in England, the caption makes it clear that this is a replica and I think it serves the purpose of illustrating the machine. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    13:24, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The original image has not been through the system - the email listed in the image description page needs to be sent through OTRS. See here for details. Awadewit (talk) 20:29, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Will take a little time, if the answers can not reasonably be found then I will remove the questioned images. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    23:44, 18 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments -
 * Okay, what makes http://www.rainbowcoloured.co.uk/filching_images/f16.jpg/ a reliable source?
 * Didn't we discuss http://www.spitfireonline.co.uk/ in a previous FAC? Refresh my memory please?
 * : Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It was in the Rolls-Royce Merlin FAC although it might have been another Spitfire website as there were a few that were removed. This site appears to be the museum's own website. I have replaced it with a book cite in case of doubt. Have removed 'rainbowcoloured'. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    16:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support as a non-expert, I found nothing I could fault. I made one tiny edit, but even that was a stylistic preference  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  17:33, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * On behalf of Nimbus (currently at work) and myself, thankyou Jimfbleak. From the comments received thus far, it's gratifying to know that this article, about something as simple as a handful of engines, maintains the interest of technically minded people and non-experts alike. Cheers. --Red Su ns et    18:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.