Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/SMS Niobe/archive1

SMS Niobe

 * Nominator(s): Parsecboy (talk) and 13:22, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Niobe had something of a colorful career, serving under the Imperial German, Yugoslav, Italian, and Nazi German flags (and depending on who you ask, maybe under the banner of the Independent State of Croatia as well). She also book-ended her relatively long life under the name Niobe, having been renamed Dalmacija and Cattaro (and, again, maybe Znaim) in between. This article is the result of a collaboration between Peacemaker and myself, and it passed a Milhist A-class review last year. Thanks to all who take the time to review it. Parsecboy (talk) 13:22, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Image review
 * Suggest adding alt text
 * File:SMS_Niobe_launching.png: as per the template, please provide evidence of lack of author attribution. Same with File:SMS_Niobe_(1899)_2.jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I've either removed the EU-no-disclosure template or moved it locally to avoid the issue, since we don't have access to the original German sources. Thanks Nikki. Parsecboy (talk) 11:03, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Comment Support by CPA-5
Hmm I'll do this later or so. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 16:39, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh right in which kind of English style should it be written? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 16:39, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * American English. Parsecboy (talk) 16:47, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * SMS Niobe ("His Majesty's Ship Niobe")[a] Delete ("His Majesty's Ship Niobe") because the note already cleared it out and it's unnecessary.
 * Done. Parsecboy (talk) 10:52, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * and a top speed of 21.5 knots (39.8 km/h; 24.7 mph) Link knots.
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:16, 7 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The ship had a long career, serving in all three German navies, along with the Yugoslav and Italian fleets Link Yugoslav.
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:16, 7 March 2020 (UTC)


 * but as one of the cruisers permitted to the post-war Reichsmarine (Navy of the Realm) British post-war.
 * Removed the hyphen. Parsecboy (talk) 10:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Niobe was 105 meters (344 ft 6 in) long overall and had a beam of 12.2 m (40 ft) --> "Niobe was 105 m (344 ft 6 in) long overall and had a beam of 12.2 m (40 ft)"
 * Done. Parsecboy (talk) 10:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * triple-expansion steam engines manufactured by AG Germania, Tegel --> "triple-expansion steam engines manufactured by AG Germania in Tegel" Because this isn't a location.
 * Done. Parsecboy (talk) 10:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * powered by eight coal-fired Thornycroft water-tube boilers Why has Thornycroft an upper case?
 * It is the name of the manufacturer. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:16, 7 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The ship was protected by an armored deck that was 20 to 25 mm (0.79 to 0.98 in) --> "She was protected by an armored deck that was 20 to 25 mm (0.79 to 0.98 in)"
 * Done. Parsecboy (talk) 10:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * thick sides, and the gun shields were 50 mm (2 in) thick Gun shields?
 * I'm not sure what you're asking on this one. Parsecboy (talk) 10:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmm it's the first time I've heard about a gun shield and because it hasn't an article maybe a clarification is needed here? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:07, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It's linked earlier at " ten 10.5 cm (4.1 in) SK L/40 guns in single mounts protected by gun shields." Parsecboy (talk) 10:57, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Will continue later on. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 22:16, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * On 19 June 1906, Niobe was recommissioned for service in the East Asia Squadron To do what?
 * Clarified. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Between 28 August to 2 September, and from 23 December What happend between 2 and 23 September?
 * This is one for . Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Nothing, as far as what's in the sources. Parsecboy (talk) 12:08, 7 April 2020 (UTC)


 * flotillas defending the Jade Bight and the mouth of the Weser Add river here.
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * British submarine HMS Traveller south of Premantura but all of the torpedoes missed Add village here.
 * Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Cattaro was later transferred to the Navy of the Independent State of Croatia Does Hildebrand say when she was transferred to Croatia?
 * This is one for . Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No, unfortunately. Parsecboy (talk) 12:08, 7 April 2020 (UTC)


 * She returned to German service in September 1943 after Italy surrendered to the Allies Ehm was there a resistance when Germany took her?
 * This is one for . Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Nothing recorded. I had a look at Dark Navy, which discusses some of the fighting between Italian and German forces, but it doesn't have anything useful to add. Parsecboy (talk) 12:08, 7 April 2020 (UTC)


 * On the night of 21–22 September, while she was still refitting --> "On the night of 21/22 September, while she was still refitting"
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * when salvage operations began. She was raised and broken up for scrap by 1952 Maybe add "Yougoslav government"?
 * As far as I know, we don't know who raised and scrapped her. Given it was in socialist Yugoslavia, it may well have been a state-run enterprise, but can't be sure. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * How about you PB? Do your sources say anything? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I don't have any further details on the scrapping process. Parsecboy (talk) 13:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries, maybe in the near future.


 * with consideration given to Zenta or Novara --> " with consideration is given to Zenta or Novara"?
 * No, that's not right. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 11:30, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Update: I don't really have the time to continue this. 'Cause of our lockdown, school and real life issues I won't be that much online for a week or so. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 22:25, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries. No rush. We'll work through responses to the rest of your comments and come back when you get a chance. Keep well. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:26, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * All right guys, now that I'm back can someone address the last comments? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:19, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * All done, ! Thanks again. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:04, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Made a question for Nate above. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Support by Llammakey
That is it for me. Good article. Llammakey (talk) 13:02, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * In the lede, serving in all three German navies, along with the Yugoslav and Italian fleets over the span of more than forty years in service - I would remove the "in service" at the end to avoid repetition.
 * Done
 * and had a beam of 12.2 m (40 ft) and a draft of 5.03 m (16 ft 6 in) forward - suggest "with a beam" to avoid "and, and".
 * Works for me
 * In the WWI section, I would move the torpedo boat link to the first mention.
 * Done
 * I would link the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the first sentence of Yugoslav service and World War II.
 * Good idea
 * Thanks Llammakey. Parsecboy (talk) 14:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * No problem. Changing to support. Llammakey (talk) 18:08, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Source review

 * Citations properly formatted.
 * Need to add the edition to Rohwer and add author links for Rohwer and Lenton Otherwise all references properly formatted.
 * Added the author-links, will need to add the edition to Rohwer. Peacemaker67  (click to talk to me) 04:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Parsecboy (talk) 12:48, 8 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The sources are known to me as highly RS.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Support Comments by Sturmvogel_66

 * Just a few niggles
 * What's a station ship?
 * A ship on an overseas station? I've reworded to avoid any confusion.
 * Shouldn't you spell out the full title of I Squadron on first use, just like you did for I Flotilla?
 * That was the full name at that time - the squadrons were re-designated when the Heimatflotte became the High Seas Fleet in 1907
 * Rather than literally translate Korvettenkapitän, wouldn't it be better to provide the equivalent rank in Anglosphere navies?
 * I think that would be confusing to see some German terms translated but others not (or it would give the misleading impression that the English translation of Korvettenkapitän is lieutenant commander). Parsecboy (talk) 12:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Link torpedo boat on first use
 * moved link up to I Torpedo-boat Flotilla. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:10, 10 April 2020 (UTC)


 * including the addition of supporting struts that rendered it a tripod mast Awkward
 * Tweaked this, hopefully better now? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:17, 10 April 2020 (UTC)


 * coast but all comma after coast--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:45, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:10, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks good.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, did you mean to cross out your support above? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:43, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ooops--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

--Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 25 April 2020 (UTC)