Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Saint Anselm College/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 14:47, 25 May 2010.

Saint Anselm College

 * Nominator(s): Ericci8996 (talk) 16:09, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello, this is technically a "renomination"; I nominated it for FA a few months ago, not realizing the proper procedures or requirements. Now, I believe these requirements have been met. I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it is an excellent article. I have worked tirelessly, with several other users to bring this article to the GA status it has earned. Citations are thorough, the images are beautiful and every section is comprehensive. However, I'm sure there is room for improvement, so feel free to suggest things. I intend to address all objections until it is promotion-worthy. I look forward to working with all of you!Ericci8996 (talk) 16:09, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment—I got rid of a few links to dab pages. Link to http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:-vbmG8RbR6oJ:faculty.plattsburgh.edu/kevin.decker/Research%2520Information/Ford.htm+Patrick+W.+Ford+architect&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1 is to a Google Cache, which will expire, and therefore should be replaced. Also another Google Cache link, and a dead link to http://www.fjc.gov/servlet/tGetInfo?jid=1133 . Link to http://sos.ri.gov/about/bio/ is timing out at the moment, but that may be temporary. Ucucha 17:40, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments Wow, the photos are lovely. I'll leave it to someone else to check the licensing of them. Thanks for your advice! I moved DiMaggio and I have no idea on how to answer your big question... also, please give me some hints on how I can edit the intro so it is not a PR release... Thanks!!! Ericci8996 (talk) 04:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Big question, and you might not be able to address it, but I want to get it out there right away, so it can be addressed by all and sundry. Don't most FAC's have a bibliography that lists the sources? This article has a detailed set of citations, but there is no actual list of sources cited.  I recall with the article on the Inner German Border in October, there was a mad dash to compile a bibliography for that.  What is the policy here? I'll bring it up on the project talk page, to, for discussion.
 * I'm told a separate bibliography is not a requirement. Auntieruth55 (talk) 22:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Another concern I have (having been a development writer for universities and colleges), the first few sections sound a lot like a proposal or pr release. Just a comment.
 * In the notable alumni section, I'd list Dominic DiMaggio separately, and include perhaps some other honorary degree recipients, or else integrate him into the text somewhere. More later. Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:37, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm still concerned about the pov. The first few sections sound a lot like a proposal or press release. This problem is raised below, and I think you've got to deal with it.  It sounds very one sided to me.  That said, I have no idea how to find less biased material that you would actually be able to publish.  The princeton review has it, of course, but that is hardly reliable.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 22:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Support This article looks good to me. I believe it meets most FA requirements. Ryanj.mccarty (talk) 21:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources issues: This is an interim list of points requiring attention:-

Tried to do a few of these below with the time I have tonite... Thanks for the suggestions *The links in the "External links" section are all cited in the article, and therefore should not be listed here. Good call, All that were listed are now removed Ericci8996 (talk) 04:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC) *44 What is this? "Italian website"? - I was denied access
 * In the references, online publisher information is often given incorrectly. In many cases the publisher is not the web name but the person/organisation responsible for the site. Thus for ref 80 the publisher is The New York Times. For 86 it is The Boston Globe. Check for other instances
 * Names of journals/newspapers should be italicised within references. Non-journal sources should not be italicised. See 69, and check carefully for others.
 * Names should be consistent between references. For example, in 108 the publisher's name is given as Northeast10.com. In 109 it is given as NE10. Again, check for other instances Did NE10 link, will check for others as time permits
 * Pulisher information missing from 37 and 53
 * Incomplete or inconsistent formats: 24, 58, 134, 135, 137
 * 67 - a subscription is required to access this. 67 does not require a subscription... the 67 I clicked is next to Ronald Reagan and it opens in google archives...Ericci8996 (talk) 04:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 116: More information needed. Is this a book?
 * 126: spelling "Diocese" (122 not 126... fixed regardless, thanks for the heads up on that, I missed it!
 * 89: What makes http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/gephardt/gephnh.html a reliable source? ( I would figure a ".edu" address would make it semi reliable... however, I am rather new to wikipedia)Ericci8996 (talk) 04:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Despite the "edu", this is a "Democracy in Action" site run by self-styled citizen-journlist Eric Appleman. It has no connection with George Washington University. Brianboulton (talk) 22:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 95: What makes this a reliable source? It's a blog. replaced Ericci8996 (talk) 04:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 141 What makes http://www.amazingheroart.com/NewFiles/RobsBio.html a reliable source? your right, removed...Ericci8996 (talk) 04:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed that a fairly high proportion of citations (around 40% at a guess) are to the college's own websites. This could affect the neutrality of the article. I'll look further at this. Brianboulton (talk) 22:56, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Object A very strong POV is evident through the article, immediately upon encountering the claim about opposing grade inflation in the lead. A whole section in the main body, but no proof except the head saying so. Everybody says their organisation is the cleanest etc. It's fluff. The section on the politics institute has a giant section about lots of presidents and legislators visiting. This is undue weight. The point of a university is to do high-quality research, traning, not inviting lots of famous people to graduation ceremonies and the like. Enormous section on small environmental initiatives. More fluff about the students having to be of high charaacter; this is just their ad-pov, not independent. The whole article is not much short of advertising, and cites are placed before and after the punctuation; the latter is correct —Preceding unsigned comment added by YellowAssessmentMonkey (talk • contribs) 02:40, May 21, 2010

YellowAssessmentMonkey - Most of your objections are opinion based... There is no way this article could have got GA if there were that many flaws with in it... I have followed the university guidelines in writing each section. A) The environmental initiatives are not small, they are campus wide... B) This article is far from an advertisement, again it would not have achieved GA, C) The punctuation's are small potatoes to fix 72.195.156.53 (talk) 13:15, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * A whole paragraph on a recycling bin???  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment: Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Have to agree with YellowMonkey here. If the college is committed to preventing grade inflation then it should be easy to provide a secondary source.
 * This sentence early on in the lead - According to the college, the student body is selected not only for their academic abilities but also for their personal character - isn't notable in my view, as it's the mantra of many liberal arts institutions in the US.
 * Information on student demographics would be interesting, but appears to be lacking.
 * I see this passed GA a day or so ago - might need to cook before being brought to FA
 * At an excess of 7400 words the article is too long for the subject - needs some trimming.


 * Oppose
 * Generally agree with Truthkeeper88.
 * The article is in places too favourable toward, or too trivially engaged with, the college. Examples (there are more instances):
 * "Members receive a card of congratulations, signed by the Dean of the College" Delete as irrelevant
 * "Saint Anselm College has resisted what the college sees as the grade inflation trend at many of America's college's and universities." See truthkeeper's comment. The section "Anti-grade inflation policy" should simply be deleted.
 * "institute is credited with raising the national profile of the college by incorporating the college in the New Hampshire primary, the first primary of the United States presidential election." - POV with no citation. Definitely not.
 * "Inside the Institute's main hallway hangs over one hundred images that represent the college's role in the political process; former Missouri congressman Richard Gephardt once recognized a picture of an elderly woman holding a sign "Gephardt for President" in a rather emotional moment as his own mother". That's nice for him, but a waste of our readers' time.

Will keep an eye out on how it goes. hamiltonstone (talk) 07:03, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The entire "Environmental responsibility" section should be deleted as non-notable - it is not significantly different to any other typical organisation of its type.
 * As a measure of how over-long this is: the NIHOP section could be reduced to a few paras, and is instead looong, with subsections. Yes, it shoudl recognise some notable events there, but the content of this article should be confined to those points that are both specific to St A's, and to which St A's was relevant (and didn't just happen to be the place where somthing happened - eg. the Kennedy "Nixon button" quote").
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.