Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Say Say Say/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 20:56, 27 February 2010.

Say Say Say

 * Nominator(s):  Pyrrhus  16 ' 17:25, 23 February 2010 (UTC)''

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it meets the FA criteria. This article documents a duet between two of the most successful musicians of all time. It is a song from Pipes of Peace, a 1983 album by Paul McCartney, and it was written and recorded by he and Michael Jackson. I look forward to any comments or suggestions.  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 17:25, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments. No dab links, no dead external links, alt text present and good. Ucucha 18:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. The article is well written and has reliable sources. Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 22:23, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments


 * "However, it had been recorded one year before" sentences shouldn't start with "However" -- it's a simple fix: just use a semi-colon instead of a full stop. Regardless, "however" is a word to avoid.
 * Done. Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 05:27, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * "It was a number one hit in the US and reached number two in the UK." These two abbreviations should be written in full on their first outing
 * Done. Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 05:27, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * "is...but" requires spaces, I think
 * Done. Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 05:31, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

These are at first glance, and there may be more in the rest of the article but I haven't looked yet. I don't have home internet access and I'm sitting in a Panera Bread which closes in 10 minutes, so I don't have time tonight to continue.

Also, have you looked at recent song articles that have been promoted to FA, and even GA? It appears that there is precedent for including a Composition section, giving details of instruments used, the key in which it's sung, etc etc.
 * Done. I added an audio sample (less than 10% of the full version of the song) into the article as well as adding information on the songs composition, such as its instruments and the key it's played in. Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 05:53, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, is there any chance of merging Say Say Say (Waiting 4 U) into the article under a "Cover version" section? Most cover songs do not have their own article.
 * Done. Seeing as though Say Say Say (Waiting 4 U) is a sample, I mentioned it in the articles "release and reception" section. Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 05:39, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll try to get back to the article on Saturday, which is when I think I'll be back at Panera. Matthewedwards : Chat  04:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments on sources - Most of them look okay, but two queries:
 * What makes undercover.com.au reliable?
 * Done. I've removed the source and the information being sourced by the reference.
 * I'm uncomfortable with using the sheet music as a primary source for stating things about the song. For example, because someone produced sheet music for piano and guitar doesn't mean those instruments were used on the record. We got the key right, but one doesn't say "the metronome is 116 beats per minute". A metronome is a tempo-keeping device and isn't used in expressing the tempo of a song. Please find secondary sources for these items to avoid misinterpreting the sheet music.
 * Done. I've removed the information pertaining to the songs instruments (guitar and piano) as well as the songs metronome. Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 08:30, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Is the sheet music alright for citing that the song is played in B♭ minor key, or should that be removed as well?  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 13:23, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would think that's okay, since it's explicitly stated on the music. -- Andy Walsh  (talk)  14:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * -- Andy Walsh  (talk)  05:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sources look good now, thanks. -- Andy Walsh  (talk)  14:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Oppose—The article is not comprehensive as it contains virtually no discussion about the music itself and none at all about the lyrics. Compare with FAs such as "Like a Rolling Stone" or "Smells Like Teen Spirit". There are a few other easily fixable issues, but this is a big one for me.—indopug (talk) 04:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've just added some more information on the songs composition, and I'm working on adding more information on the songs lyrics. Aside from the songs composition, are there any other things that need fixing in the article? Thanks, Crystal Clear x3 [talk] 05:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, it appears that more information has been added by Crystal Clear from the sheet music of the song. I'm not sure if the sheet music is alright for citing what has been added, per Laser Brain's comments above. I'll ask for his input. In the meantime, does this addition of content address your concern? If not, are there any further sources you could provide about the composition of the song? Thanks,  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 09:01, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Oppose I have the same concerns as Indopug. Also, I see there's a disproportionate number of Jackson-centric sources utilized compared to McCartney ones (and there are a lot available), suggesting that not all the available sources have been consulted. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:34, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you please provide the McCartney sources you feel will add extra information? Thanks,  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 10:50, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The imperative is upon you to find them. Try going through Google Books or searching in your nearest library catalogue. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:58, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've added more McCartney sources to balance the article out.  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 13:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not really a question of balance. Given McCartney dueted on the song and it was released on his album, you really should look for information about the song in all the McCartney-centric sources available. Given there's a lot, I suggest withdrawing the nomination until you can do some additional in-depth research. WesleyDodds (talk) 12:45, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've looked at many McCartney sources and a lot of them repeat the information that is provided by the Jackson sources. Others just mention the song in passing. If there are specific sources that I may have missed and that add extra information, then please notify me of them so I can take a look. Thanks,  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 15:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.