Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Scarlet myzomela/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 21:39, 6 September 2017.

Scarlet myzomela

 * Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

This article is about a little bird I might see I my garden. I have scoured sources and think it's pretty comprehensive and readable. Let me know if there is anything to improve. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Support Comments from Aa77zz
Article looks good. Lead
 * "Up to three broods may be laid..." -> may be raised
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Taxonomy
 * Provide Stephens first name and link to James Francis Stephens
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Although not strictly necessary I think it is useful to cite the early publications that are available online. Gould includes a plate on the previous page:
 * Title page dated 1848.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC)


 * mention that species is monotypic ie no regional variation recognized
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:59, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Description
 * link mantle, scapulars, retrices
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Distribution and habitat
 * "Nomadic movements of populations, generally following flowering of preferred food plants, also occurs." occur
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Breeding
 * Is the nest built by the female alone or by both sexes?
 * both (sort of) - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:09, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps more later. Aa77zz (talk) 11:13, 21 August 2017 (UTC) more
 * The lead includes "...it is the smallest honeyeater in Australia." This should be mentioned in the body of the article and cited. Are there smaller honeyeaters outside Australia? Aa77zz (talk) 16:53, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:57, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * (I can answer my own question. According to HBW alive, the mountain myzomela from New Guinea is smaller at 9-10 cm. The black-bellied myzomela from New Britain is also small.) - Aa77zz (talk) 17:31, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm happy with the changes. Supported above. - Aa77zz (talk) 15:11, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Comments from JM
Happy to take a look.
 * I'm not keen on the watermark in the lead image. Could it be cloned or cropped out? Also, as the species is obviously highly sexually dimorphic, perhaps you could consider adding a female to the infobox?
 * added female now. Not in position to do image editing. Anyone is welcome to crop image - agree it is a good idea Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:30, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I've cropped the male image and in so doing removed the watermark. The image is sharp but low resolution. I can produce a tighter crop if need be to more closely match the female. - Aa77zz (talk) 08:59, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * thanks Aa77zz, I am happy if you crop it more or leave it. I'll leave to your judgement. Either way is an improvement on before Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:59, 22 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "though the name Myzomela dibapha was occasionally used" Where did this come from?
 * ok here's the thing - because there was a question over C. sanguinolenta, C. (M.) dibapha was next-oldest name. But sources don't explicitly spell this out (which is annoying). I thought there was enough information to glean this. need to re-read sources to clarify what I can put in to highlight this without going into OR territory. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:30, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Who is the authority for Myzomela dibapha? You say that Stephens offered Meliphaga sanguinea and that Gould later synonymised Latham's names, but where did M. dibapha come from? Josh Milburn (talk) 15:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Latham had three images of the scarlet myzomela and gave them 3 different names - I wrote it in the first few sentences of the section. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:30, 24 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I wonder if the taxonomy section could be made a little more chronological? It seems odd to talk about merging the three species and then jumping to talk about an alternative name for one of the three. (Splitting that first paragraph may also be an option, but don't force it!)
 * done - it also helps explain the (incorrectly) presumed invalidity of sanguinolenta Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "This species was known as the scarlet honeyeater in Australia and scarlet myzomela elsewhere" I find this tense a little odd; I suppose I just want to say "when?"
 * aaah this is tricky. I always knew it as scarlet honeyeater...there is a real push for scarlet myzomela, which has gained ground over the past 25 years or so.... will see what I can add The Fraser book from 2013 points out that us aussies still call the Myzomela honeyeaters honeyeaters more than myzomelas...which rings true with me....so corrected (viz the great northern/common loon debate..). Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:41, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It's vague, but maybe you could just add "For a time" to the start of the sentence. "For much of the 20th century" would work very nicely, if your source supports that. Josh Milburn (talk) 15:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "On its breast, the red becomes more mottled with grey towards the belly and flanks, which are grey-white" As you're talking about "the adult male" here, would "his" not be appropriate? (I may be wrong.) Same with "It sometimes has pinkish or reddish patches on the forehead" and "its black bill" for the female, and "The female chirps as it hops" with "it can also make a squeaking call".
 * errr....strikes me as a bit too anthropomorphic (unless said with a West Country accent) but happy to go with consensus if other folks feel strongly Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:30, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I certainly don't want to push it! Josh Milburn (talk) 15:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "and light brown rump and uppertail coverts" This doesn't quite work... rumps maybe? Or "and a light brown rump with uppertail coverts of the same colour"?
 * "rumps" sounds ok to me - changed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:28, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "have patches or red feathers coming though the juvenile brown plumage" of? If not, what are the patches of?
 * ack, should be "of" - changed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "banding" is jargon (maybe "moult" is too)
 * linked x 2 Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:58, 22 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I've rejigged the feeding paragraph a little; please do double-check.
 * looks fine Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "The nest consists of a tiny cup of shredded bark with spider web as binding, high up in tree canopy, or even mistletoe" Unclear; is the nest sometimes mistletoe, or is mistletoe sometimes an alternative to the canopy? Also, a link to mistletoe (assuming mistletoe isn't something different down there!) would be good
 * link added to loranthaceae, which is the southern hemisphere mistletoes, and it is "in" hence added to clarify Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:29, 22 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Could we get a link for wattle? Also, as with your other FAC: If I was being very picky, I'd note that there was some inconsistency between use of (and links on) common names and specific/generic names
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:06, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "being laid one day apart. ... Eggs are laid a day apart," Repetition
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:49, 22 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Some images further down the article might be nice; how about a favoured flower?
 * added one now. plus another of bird foraging. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:41, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Very engaging. Shorter, but I can't perceive any obvious gaps. Please double-check my edits. Josh Milburn (talk) 21:22, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * changes look all fine Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:59, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Image review - all looks good, this low res image of the female has an interesting message in its description: "high resolution version available from author" Since that was written in 2005, it may not be possible to reach the author, but maybe worth a try... FunkMonk (talk) 22:22, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * He did make an edit this year, so I have asked him Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:18, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Comments from Dank
Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 00:17, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Source review from Adityavagarwal
I reviewed it for a GA, so all of my other issues on prose were resolved. I support it on prose as well. Adityavagarwal (talk) 01:49, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * All the sources are impeccable! Just for when they die, web citations 1, 2, and 5 should be archived.Looks awesome otherwise.

Support from Jim, one comment
One quibble Trees visited include turpentine... It is omnivorous has a change of subject. feel free to strike the comment part of the heading when you've fixed this Jimfbleak - talk to me?  12:30, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * tweaked..and comment struck as suggested Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:06, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Comments from Vanamonde
Very solid article, comments are minor/a matter of preference only. Vanamonde (talk) 05:23, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * First sentence a tad long.
 * split Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:05, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "first years of settlement of Sydney" Sensitive topic, I know, but let's at least go with "European settlement", or preferably "European colonisation".
 * yeah good point and prudent addition. Done. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:05, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Does the HBW say when the supposed conspecifics were made other species?
 * HBW doesn't. For many it wasn't a clear-cut thing, but various splitters and lumpers generally citing reasons why their view holds until new evidence emerges. The pacific islands and Indonesia are still pretty poorly explored. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:05, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Not much to be done, then.


 * Minor point, but we say "scarlet" in the body and "striking bright red" in the lead..."
 * they are synonymous but I see your point. I made it "bright red (scarlet)" in the body. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:05, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Information about migration might be worth a mention in the lead, which is not overlong.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:12, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Am I wrong in thinking that you have used the serial comma in certain places "Its range extends inland to Charters Towers, Carnarvon Gorge and Inglewood in Queensland, and the Warrumbungles in New South Wales" but not others "Insects eaten include beetles, flies, bugs and caterpillars." I might totally be wrong about this, I have always had more instinct than knowledge of grammar.
 * you are correct. I hate oxford commas and my inclination is not to use them...but they are every useful to slot references behind where needed, so I have become accustomed to slotting them in but sometimes forget. Consider them in. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:12, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "mangroves or species of paperbark, eucalypts or wattles (Acacia spp.)" Curious why this isn't "mangroves, species of paperbark, eucalypts, or wattles"
 * an oversight. removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:16, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * WRT locations in the citations (which always trips me up as well); you have country information in some cases but not others.
 * good catch - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:17, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

All my points have been addressed, happy to support this; enjoyed reading it. Vanamonde (talk) 10:43, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * thx/much appreciated.. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:23, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Closing comment: I notice that the images don't have alt text. While alt text is not an explicit requirement at FA, I always feel that we should demonstrate best practice. However, it is not worth holding up promotion over this. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Sarastro1 (talk) 21:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.