Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 03:26, 27 May 2011.

Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)

 * Nominator(s): Adabow (talk · contribs), Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because it documents one of the most culturally significant pop songs of the decade. It has been through 2 PRs and had a run-through by an experienced copy-editor, so I think it makes an interesting read. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Oppose mostly on sourcing at this time. I appreciate the work that's gone into this, but I don't feel it yet meets the FA criteria. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:10, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What makes this a high-quality reliable source? This? This? This? This? This? This? This? This? This? This? This?
 * Don't italicize locations unless they're actually part of the publication title
 * This link appears to be broken
 * It's working. 178.134.118.245 (talk) 16:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in whether authors are listed first or last name first
 * Reference formatting needs to be much more consistent. For example, compare refs 6 and 7, or 9 and 10 - these are from the same source, they should be formatted the same
 * Magazine and newspaper sources without weblinks need page numbers. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:10, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment I can't speak for the others, but the Yahoo blog and About.com are both accepted by editors all around for music articles. The Yahoo blog is written by senoir Billboard editor Paul Grein, who has direct info from Nielsen. As for About.com, its used throughout all music pages and has been used and accepted for quite some time. As the the few others I can't speak.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   18:20, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What are the qualifications of the author of the About.com pages? Do you have a WP:RSN or WP:FAC discussion to support the use of these sources? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:07, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not, but it is published by The New York Times and is widely used and respected among Wikipedia articles. As I said above, I agree about the others, but these are in fact regarded as reliable. Quoting CK above me:
 * About.com; Bill Lamb from About.com is an established author that is a "music journalist specializing in pop music" and contains a substantial background as he has been writing for over ten years. Besides his credentials the website itself is published, supported and funded by one of the most reliable sources out there, The New York Times Company. According to WP:SOURCES this website seems to meet criteria, WP:CONSENSUS among music editors have deemed this as a reliable source, there are hundreds if not 1000's of articles on here (alot of GA's included) that use this as a source.
 * Yahoo.ca, Yahoo blog is written by senior Billboard editor Paul Grein who has direct info from Nielsen. Please see WP:NEWSBLOG "Several newspapers host columns they call blogs. These are acceptable as sources if the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." which is exactly what this is.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   22:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yahoo is not a newspaper, and I see nothing to indicate that it exercises editorial control over the blogs it hosts; if that is the case, can you point it out? Please also note that FAs have higher requirements for sourcing than most other areas of WP, including GAs - high-quality reliable sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you still dubious about Lamb? Nero has written for the Los Angeles Daily News, The Boston Globe, Pasadena Star-News. Paul Grein's blogs are very reliable, as he sources his data from Nielsen SoundScan. I think people see the word "blog" and think "unreliable!". Many blogs are very unreliable, such as those hosted at blogspot.com and similar sites. However, one must remember that a "blog" is simply a "web log". Top-40.com has been replaced by a press release from the horse's mouth, and I am working on PopEater. Adabow (talk · contribs) 04:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have replaced PopEater. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:32, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Nikki, I have to disagree with your assessment for Yahoo!. As others said, Paul Grein is an extremely reliable author, writing for Billboard, Rolling Stone etc previously. You are kinda imposing your overall assessment of blogs into this. If so, then I request you please don't. As for Yahoo exxercising control over them, I ca assure you that they do. There have been cases of content being updated and misnomers addressed, which normally doesnot happen if a higher authority doesnot oversee them. I'm dubious about About.com, but I am absolutely sure about Yahoo blog, especially Chart Watch by Paul Grein. — Legolas ( talk 2 me ) 05:46, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * And just to add, when I worked at Billboard, even senior editors like Monica, Silvio and even Fred sometimes used to ask Paul for his comments before constructng an article. I find him even more reliable, than the whole of Billboard put together. — Legolas ( talk 2 me ) 05:52, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have found some RSN archives: . Consensus is that About.com is reliable except for extraordinary claims that are unmentioned in other sources. It also depends on the individual writers; Nero and Lamb are expert music journalists. For a music review and Analysis, I believe that it certainly meets WP:RSN. Adabow (talk · contribs) 06:28, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed to everything above. Nikki, please look into it with a broader mind set.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:34, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Those are not the conclusions at RSN, nor have you supplied information about Bill Lamb that would elevate him to the level of high-quality sourcing needed for a featured article. About.com is not typically a reliable source; please explain why Bill Lamb, as a self-published source, is high quality.  As far as I can tell from his about.com bio and the info (not) supplied about him, he's an internet hobbyist.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 12:42, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have removed sources written by Lamb. However, I still assert that Nero is reliable because he has written abou R&B in The San Diego Union-Tribune, Los Angeles Daily News, The Boston Globe and Pasadena Star-News. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe I have addressed all the issues you raised, Nikki, apart from page numbers (working on it). Sources have either been discussed or replaced. I can't see any specific mis-italicisations – can you point out the specifics? The link is working for me (and the anon), and author names are now all been formatted last, first. Formats are consistent (problem was in the annoying differences between cite web and cite news). Adabow (talk · contribs) 09:01, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You've got some place names italicized (I think this might be a function of some articles on publications having place names in the title? If so, you can solve this by piping the wikilink), the "Note" should not be italicized, etc. You've also still got quite a few (mostly minor) inconsistencies in referencing format, and in line with Brian's comments below I think this article might need some copy-editing. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I think I caught everything this time. I have asked another editor to look up the page number of the Rolling Stone magazine, but every other issue you raised has been dealt with. Thanks for reviewing! Adabow (talk · contribs) 10:21, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Support - I have read through the article in the last few days and have no problem with the current (or prior to think about it) sources. Am happy to support an article of this caliber. Good job guys! ;)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   11:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Comment I am a bit concerned about the quality of the prose. Here are some issues from the early parts of the article:-
 * "The song was named one the best singles of 2008" - word missing?
 * This reads very oddly: "...including celebrities such as US President Barack Obama and pop singers Justin Timberlake and Joe Jonas". Should the President be classed as a "celebrity" alongside a couple of pop singers?
 * "Their wedding, held in April 2008, was initially kept private". I think you mean "secret".
 * "Chosen to be the two lead singles from I Am... Sasha Fierce, "Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)" and "If I Were a Boy" were released simultaneously to demonstrate the concept of dueling personalities of Knowles, also highlighted on the integral album". This is a rather convoluted sentence. Can you clarify what was "highlighted on the integral album", and how this was done?
 * "Eventually it was released via remixes download and CD single on February 16." It's not clear what this means. Should there be a comma after "remixes"? And "via" would be better written out as "by means of".
 * I haven't read in detail beyond this point, but at a glance the "Composition" section seems mainly to contain critical reception comments.

Brianboulton (talk) 21:57, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments. The specific examples have been addressed. The remixes were released as a download - I have reworded to stipulate this. I fixed one sentence in the "Composition" section, but otherwise it contains details on the song's content. Adabow (talk · contribs) 23:44, 17 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.