Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Slipknot (band)/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 23:34, 23 September 2010.

Slipknot (band)

 * Nominator(s):  REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  00:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because after a complete rewrite and edit I believe this article meets the FA Criteria.  REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  00:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment—no dab links, but dead links to http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/discography/index.jsp?pid=33923&aid=493431, http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/discography/index.jsp?JSESSIONID=FGrJM75lyJCgHRsSvKjGPcrFKmpp2n3FpK7PJQTpB2P7Q8nPwxbx!753788446&pid=33923&aid=744127, http://www.roadrun.com/news/story.aspx?newsitemID=16966, and http://clevescene.com/2000-04-13/music/soundbites/. Ucucha 00:38, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed I have replaced/fixed all the dead links. -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  08:36, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Among the current links, the link to http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/artists/Slipknot/showVideo.aspx?fileID=539 doesn't seem to lead to a "Vermillion music video". Ucucha 19:50, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed - I have replaced the link with the correct one. -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  21:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Ucucha 21:19, 14 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment 2c: inability to verify statements against citation quality, leading to serious 1c issues. I reviewed the first 50 footnotes and the bibliography.  Generally: lack of citation consistency, lack of locations for minor presses especially ones with common names, incorrect citation of the titles of newspapers and magazines.  The most significant issue is lack of time stamps for material to be verified off sequentially played media (audio, video) which directly impacts on the capacity to verify and locate quotes and statements.  Fifelfoo (talk) 01:42, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Multiple varying date formats, consistency please.
 * All three presses listed under "Literature" require locations for supply and verification purposes, they're small presses, at least one with a commonly used name.
 * Metro (London) is a newspaper, give them italics, indicate location (as it is a common title and requires clarification.)
 * "Slipknot – Up To Our Necks. [DVD]. Chrome Dreams. 2004." — lacks editor / director attribution; press requires location. Both the 16 second excerpt and the claim, "At this time the future of Slipknot was unclear and there was speculation over whether the band had split and the possibility of a third album." are footnoted to this.  Neither has a time-stamp location for the point at which the proof occurs in the text.
 * "Slipknot – X-Posed, The Interview. [CD]. Chrome Dreams. 2001." editor or interviewer, press location, time stamp for the portion referred to.
 * "Porter, Dick (2003). Rapcore: The Nu-Metal Rap Fusion. London: Plexus. ISBN 0859653218." Location in text cited required for verification purposes.
 * ""The joy of 666". NME. 15 May 2001. http://www.nme.com/news/slipknot/7781. Retrieved 25 April 2009." NME is a magazine, deserves italics for its title.
 * "Shawn Crahan (Director). (2006). Voliminal: Inside the Nine. [DVD]. Roadrunner Records." timestamp for verification purposes
 * USA Today is a Newspaper.
 * ""Slipknot Bassist Died Of 'Accidental' Overdose". Belinda Goldsmith, Reuters. 2010-06-22. http://www.billboard.com/news/slipknot-bassist-died-of-accidental-overdose-1004099551.story#/news/slipknot-bassist-died-of-accidental-overdose-1004099551.story. Retrieved 2010-08-20." Authors come first
 * Fixed - I believe I have addressed all of your issues regarding the referencing. I will try address your other concerns later today or tomorrow. -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  11:02, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

THe article is underdeveloped, espcially the style section which has two sentences dicussing lyrics and little on genre of music. Sentence oddities like "Including; a case in 2003 " and non-sentences like Featuring a typical heavily down-tuned guitar set-up (lead, rhythm, and bass guitars), two percussionists in addition to the primary drummer and electronics (samples and turntables). redundancies: Burger King responded to the suit with a countersuit, and in that suit pointed out that many other bands. just pointing out. Taylor had this to say. just said. Furthering his point by saying: "there are always going to be mental disorders and people who cause violence for no other reason than the fact that they're fucked up and lost." again not a proper sentence. Even though Slipknot have been linked to several cases like this, there has been no incidents in which they were proven to be liable. redundant first part. vocalist taylor appears a thousand times. we already recognise this the first time. also issues with tense switching back and forth/ Another source of controversy was the band's 2005 lawsuit against Burger King, claiming that company created the advertising based band Coq Roq to capitalize on Slipknot's image. not grammatical and hyphen. "advertising campaign designed to motivate young people to vote". there's lawsuit and then the next minute theres a campaign getting young people to vote? Throughout their career, Slipknot have continued to develop and change their image. continued redundant with throughout. Several band members have noted that wearing the masks helps keep their personal lives private, percussionist Fehn went as far as saying it was a "blessing" that they do not get recognized. new sentence, or semi-colon. Most notably; for the music video and live performances of the song "Vermilion" in 2004 and 2005 the band members wore death masks made from casts of their own faces,[74] and in 2008 prior to the release of All Hope Is Gone Slipknot released photos of the band wearing large masks, guitarist Root explained that they "represent the ego" - this sentence is an unrepentant abomination. strong oppose edit conflict. 86.141.247.236 (talk) 01:56, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - I have copeditted the sections you brought to my attention and I have extended the Styles and lyrical themes section. I hope you think it's of a better standard and would appreciate your revised opinion on it. -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  19:38, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment According to these three books, the band's first name was "Meld", a name that I cannot find mentioned in the present article at all (even though it was present in earlier versions). This is odd; is there a reason for this? It also seems to me these books contain a wealth of further details on the band's history and performance style that one might expect to see covered in a comprehensive treatment; I believe there is room for article expansion. As another reviewer noted above, the article still needs copyediting -- sentences like "As well as their usual masks, there has been several occasions in which Slipknot have incorporated special masks for specific reasons." fall well short of FA standards. -- JN 466  02:00, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment When I rewrote the main body of the article I wanted the article to more concise. I thought it would be a better move to remove some information that I thought was trivial and keep the article on track without going in to too much detail. I actually deliberated over the use of 'Meld' in the article because they only used it once in a performance before changing it. However, I'd be more than happy to include it in the article. I believe the article is comprehensive and concise and there are other articles based on Slipknot (for example; albums, band members, tours) that go in to further detail. As for copyeditting issues, I don't think the article has terrible issues and I thought that they could be addressed with the comments from reviewers in this process. I would appreciate reviewers help on identifying problems in the article and suggestions on how to make it better. -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  10:26, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not just that we don't mention the Meld performance (I think we should, given that at least three books mention it), it's also that we seem to say the group's first name was "The Pale Ones", a statement which is unsourced. The nearest source cited is Arnopp, but Arnopp does not appear to mention that name., . I can't find the name "The Pale Ones" in any RS. -- JN 466  14:08, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have added the info on Meld. And the book by Arnopp is the correct source for The Pale Ones. It appears that google books only has a blurb from that book. The exact excerpt from page 40 is: "Come September 1995 [...] Shawn and Paul had started a new endeavour named The Pales Ones" "Shawn was on drums, while Anders Colsefni sang and ex-Body Pit guitarist named Donnie Steele riffed it up." -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  14:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. The article contains the sentence, "Slipknot are known for their chaotic and energetic live shows, something which has been attributed to their early success." Two issues: (1) do we mean "contributed" to their early success? "Attributed" does not really make sense. (2) I am having a hard time extracting that info from the cited source, which is http://www.nme.com/reviews/slipknot/6129.
 * Fixed, I copeditted it and replaced the reference with Allmusic, specifically per this excerpt: "They gradually built an audience through near-constant touring, working their way up to the summer Ozzfest package tour, which really expanded their audience. Their live shows were a much-discussed hit with metal fans, and the band performed with such energy that Crahan gashed his head open on his own drum kit twice that summer, requiring stitches both times." -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  21:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The next sentence is, "Typically featuring most band members headbanging, several members stage diving and even fighting." You won't get the prose to pass here if you have sentences like that (there are a good number of such sentences.) You can write, Slipknot are known for their chaotic and energetic live shows, typically featuring most band members headbanging, several members stage diving and even fighting. Or you can write, Slipknot are known for their chaotic and energetic live shows. These typically feature most band members headbanging, several members stage diving and even fighting. But you can't write, Slipknot are known for their chaotic and energetic live shows. Typically featuring most band members headbanging, several members stage diving and even fighting. That won't pass as "excellent prose" here. Generally, every sentence is expected to have a subject and a verb, and the second sentence has no subject. You need to go through the article and reformulate sentence fragments that have been made to do the job of sentences; sometimes it may be enough to turn the preceding period into a comma or semi-colon, in other cases you may have to reformulate. Now, the cited source for this sentence is http://www.nme.com/news/slipknot/45333 ; this does not comment on what a "typical" Slipknot show looks like, but is a review of an individual concert. It seems quite plausible that what is described in the review is typical of the band's live shows, but to pass the FA criteria you need to find a source that comments on the typical style of their shows, rather than a review of a single show. For example, is it typical that members have a fist fight, or was it an isolated occurrence? The cited source does not tell us.
 * Fixed, I copyeditted the highlighted sentences and added the reference from the Rapcore book, specifically this excerpt: "Live, Slipknot are a spectacle of non-stop motion, which regularly decends to the level of on-stage brawling between band members." -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  21:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If I find time, I may help a bit with the copyediting. -- JN 466  14:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment: The rationales on the two music files are downright wrong; they use extremely general terms (which sets off warning signals- a specific explanation of what is being illustrated and why that needs to be illustrated is required) but both rationales claim the songs are "specifically discussed in the article", which they are not. J Milburn (talk) 01:03, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have updated the rationals to include more specific information about their usage. -- REZTER  TALK   &oslash;  14:38, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, thanks. J Milburn (talk) 14:47, 16 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.