Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Socialist Soviet Republic of Abkhazia/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 14:32, 15 May 2018.

Socialist Soviet Republic of Abkhazia

 * Nominator(s): Kaiser matias (talk) 23:29, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Technically a Soviet republic for 10 years, the SSR Abkhazia was short-lived but had a long-lasting impact on the region, and is arguably the source of the current problems in the region. A short article owing to the fact that it wasn't exactly important at the time, I think it's ready for the next step. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:29, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Source review by Lingzhi

 * Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 12:03, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note that just because a warning is displayed doesn't mean there's really any problem.. but I'm listing errors in case there's something we can improve:
 * Anchabadze, Yu. D.; Argun, Yu. G. (2012), Sort error, expected: Anchabadze1998;
 * Anchabadze, Jurij (1998) Sort error, expected: AnchabadzeArgun2012;
 * For the two above, if you have one article by someone acting alone and another by that same person and others & that second article has the same author as its first author, the one with a single author goes first. For example: Sen, Amartya (2012) goes before Sen, Amartya; Greenough, Paul (1982).
 * Fixed


 * Cornell, Svante E. (2001), Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation.
 * Removed


 * kartuli sabch'ota entsiklopedia (1985) Missing ISBN;
 * I am not sure of an ISBN for it. It's a Soviet-era encyclopedia, though I can check in the next few days (I'm able to access it right now).


 * Is Lakoba the same person as Lak'oba?
 * It is. For linguistic/political purposes the cited book uses a modified transliteration, which I have preserved for accuracy. Lakoba's name, when published elsewhere in English, is written without the apostrophe, and transliterated without it when going from Russian-language sources.


 * Lakoba, Stanislav (1995), Sort error, expected: Lak'oba1998a;
 * Done


 * Lakoba, Stanislav (1990), Sort error, expected: Lak'oba1998b; Missing ISBN;
 * Done


 * Lak'oba, Stanislav (1998a) Sort error, expected: Lakoba1990;
 * Done


 * Lak'oba, Stanislav (1998b) Sort error, expected: Lakoba1995;
 * Done


 * Lakoba, Stanislav (2001) Missing ISBN;
 * Done


 * Papuashvili, George, ed. (2012) Missing ISBN; Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 12:03, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Done

Just some things holding me up. Kaiser matias (talk) 14:30, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Addressed everything here. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:15, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Image review
 * File:Flag_of_Abkhazian_SSR.svg: source link appears to be dead
 * Updated link.


 * Internationale-ru.ogg: while the composition may not be an object of copyright, the performance likely is
 * Removed the link, just kept the name of the song


 * File:Lakoba_Nestor.jpg: source link is dead; where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 16:12, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It comes from a 1931 edition of Pravda. Not sure how that works for copyright, as it was an official Soviet publication.

Fairly certain it's from a Pravda issue, and I'll be able to go through that properly in a few days here. Kaiser matias (talk) 14:30, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Addressed these. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:15, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Comments Support by Cas Liber
Reading now and making straightforward copyedits as I go. Please revert if I accidentally change the meaning. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:47, 26 February 2018 (UTC)


 *  Stalin visited annually throughout the 1920s and was joined by his associates from the Kremlin, who used this time to gain the trust of Stalin - try to avoid two Stalins in the one sentence.
 * Changed


 *  Collectivization was finally implemented after Abkhazia was downgraded in 1931, and after Lakoba's death in 1936 - these are two different dates...it can't really be after both. If gradual say so.
 * Clarified

Am reduced to nitpicking - well-written overall. I can't see any other prose issues. It appears to me to be comprehensive and neutrally written but I concede I have little knowledge of the region at all. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:51, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed both of those. Thanks. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:18, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * All looks good to my eyes regarding comprehensiveness and prose, but I concede i am no expert in the area. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:32, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Support from John

 * I take it we're in British English here? The article seems to have been started in BrEng. If we are, I don't think we can have "cognizant" or "vacation". --John (talk) 23:40, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * As an international subject not based in an English-speaking country, it probably should default to English. The mix-up within likely stems from the fact that I'm Canadian and thus not totally familiar with the peculiarities of British English. If you have some example of things to fix up, please note them and I'll take care of them. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:17, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * MOS:RETAIN. --John (talk) 20:26, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of the policy, and it should be British English based on that. However like I said, I'm Canadian and use Canadian English, so if there are any word choices to fix, please point them out, as I'm not familiar with the nuances of British English (like the aforementioned "cognizant" and "vacation"). Kaiser matias (talk) 15:56, 7 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Do we like this lead sentence? I'd trim all the metadata to a footnote and have the lead sentence read:  Much easier to read and the interesting but nonvital stuff goes to the bottom of the article. --John (talk) 20:26, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Moved that down to a note. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:56, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Don't you agree that's much better? I adjusted the spelling that I could see as agreed above, and made some other very minor copyedits. I am left with: "The Abkhaz people were cognizant of their republic and its quasi-independent status, and though it was removed in 1931 they did not forget it had existed." "Cognizant" means "aware", but it's already a really awkward sentence and that would make it awful. Any other ways we can express this? --John (talk) 20:47, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Indeed the native names was quite burdensome in the lead, and I hadn't really thought of how best to deal with it, so thanks for the suggestion. I changed the wording in question around a bit, hope that is better. Kaiser matias (talk) 09:31, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Just seeing if you're good with it now? Kaiser matias (talk) 10:26, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It looks good and I am now happy to support on prose. Thank you for your work on this fine article. --John (talk) 17:17, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Coordinator note:, this has stagnated—if some more review is not forthcoming in the next few days, it will be archived. -- Laser brain  (talk)  00:49, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I knew that was going to come up, unfortunately. I have left some messages on a couple of relevant projects regarding this, but am not sure if anything will come of it. If not, then it'll have to be archived and renominated. Kaiser matias (talk) 05:51, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * If I can scrape some time in the next couple of days, I'll recuse and review it. The topic looks interesting! -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:56, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Though I should note that over the next couple days I may be slightly inactive, as I'll be flying for most of that time. But soon as possible I will address things. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:32, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Support by Kees08

 * Caption, not a complete sentence so no period The Socialist Soviet Republic of Abkhazia in 1921.
 * Done


 * Cite the things in the infobox that are not cited elsewhere in the article
 * Remove the fragment like: The Georgian SSR in 1922, with the SSR Abkhazia highlighted in pink (or similar) The Georgian SSR in 1922. The SSR Abkhazia is highlighted in pink.
 * Done


 * Forgot a word or two? divert Georgian hostility from to authorities
 * Done


 * First sentence is a fragment Nestor Lakoba, the de facto leader of Abkhazia from 1921 until his death in 1936. He was instrumental in having the SSR Abkhazia established.
 * Done


 * In this citation, shouldn't violence be capitalized? A Fateful Moment: Ethnic Autonomy and Revolutionary violence in the Democratic Republic of Georgia
 * Done

Just a couple comments. Article was very well written.  Kees08  (Talk)   10:17, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Alright, delving deeper, past the prose now. Would it be normal for an article like this to write a brief overview about the flag, coat of arms, etc? I found a probably not reliable source, but it has some interesting information into the development of the flag.

It almost seems like it should have sections on religion, culture, etc...but I suppose those are covered by the Abkhazia article? Thoughts?  Kees08  (Talk)   10:27, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for going over it, though as noted I will be slightly delayed in actually responding to the comments. Will note that I should be able to add a few things relating to culture that you noted (flag, coat of arms, religion, etc), and can add it to the "culture" subsection. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:42, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds good; should we be adding other sections typically found in country articles, such as climate? As of right now, it reads more like History of SSR Abkhazia than an all-encompassing article  Kees08  (Talk)   20:50, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at what I can do. Should have things done within a day though. Kaiser matias (talk) 12:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Still need to just finalise citations for the stuff in the infobox (sorry I moved and am having issues getting settled), but in the meantime, I took a look at some other former country FAs, and most of them lack stuff that contemporary articles have (like the aforementioned climate). Now that obviously is not necessarily a standard, and I can add it if need be, its just it seems more in line to stay with previous articles and keep that for the modern incarnations, at least that's how I see it. Let me know what you think. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:50, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I know the feeling, I moved recently too. No worries. Empire of Brazil is what I am looking at now, let me know if you have found better former country articles that are more recent; it is the most recent one I could find. Things I found there that might be good in this article: currency, government (did they have elections, or did they even plan to? etc). Those are the only two I think, unless coat of arms/flag, etc should also be in there. If you do not think so, just let me know with a decent reason. Thanks!  Kees08  (Talk)   05:43, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Not a problem, just wanted to see your views on it. And due to some delays I won't have proper internet access for a couple more days, and the one I'm using now is beyond awful, so thanks for understanding; it's just the worst time to have to deal with all this, and I do apologize. Kaiser matias (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * (outdent) Finally gotten my situation under control here, so added some things regarding the government, currency, coat-of-arms. I've simply added to existing sections to keep the flow, but if there's more needed just let me know, I shouldn't be too long getting back now. And again, apologies to everyone for this. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:26, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks! I will look at this when I have time (soon).  Kees08  (Talk)   03:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Last comment before my support: I do not think the comma should be there, regardless the space should between the ref and content should not be there. SSR Abkhazia, [19]  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * Seems that was simply an issue with the template. I fixed that up. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, makes sense. I tried to fix it myself but could not. Thanks!  Kees08  (Talk)   22:57, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Comments by Dudley

 * I found the first paragraph confusing and unsatisfactory. "Formed in the aftermath of the Red Army invasion of Georgia in 1921, it was independent until 16 December 1921, when it agreed to a treaty uniting it with the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic (Georgian SSR). The SSR Abkhazia was unique among autonomous Soviet republics in having de facto independence from Georgia." A treaty uniting two SSRs implies between equals, and it is still called an SSR, but linked to ASSR, which is one level below. It is described as unique in having independence from Georgia, but there were many ASSRs which had nothing to do with Georgia. It joined the Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic, which appears to be one level up from Georgia as a constituent republic of the USSR, but this is not clarified. So far as I can see, it was really an ASSR, quite far down the chain, but given the title of an SSR, one level up, but had a degree of autonomy due only to its leader's personal friendship with Stalin. All this - whether I have got it right or wrong - needs to be spelled out, not left to the reader to guess at. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:37, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've tried to clarify the wording a bit, and sort out the confusing nature of what happened. If more is needed just let me know. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That looks OK now.


 * Further comments
 * I think it would be helpful to say that Abkhazia is located in the Caucusus at the eastern end of the Black Sea.
 * "Stalin and other major Soviet leaders". I would delete the word "major" as superfluous.
 * "Abkhazia was nominally led by the titular Abkhaz people," I am not clear what this means. "nominally" and "titular" both mean in name only - so Abkhazia was led in name only by a people which existed in name only?
 * "Reluctant to create ethno-territorial units, the region was incorporated into the Kutais Governorate." This is ungrammatical. "Reluctant" requires someone to be reluctant.
 * "Georgia never fully maintained control of the region" "established" rather than "maintained"?
 * "Sukhumi was captured on 4 March" This is the first time you have mentioned Sukhumi (apart from in the infobox), so you should link it and say it was the capital.
 * " e) ChKa, f) RKI, " These initials mean nothing to the reader and should be explained.
 * "to divert Georgian hostility from the authorities in Moscow towards the Abkhaz" I am not clear what this means. Divert Georgians from being hostile to Moscow to being hostile to the Abkhaz? Why should it do that?
 * What happened to Eshba? Was he junior to Lakoba, forced out or what?
 * The article is a bit thin, but I assume that this is due to limited sources. Dudley Miles (talk) 12:02, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've gone and taken care of all these as well. And unfortunately it is about all there is on the topic, which is a shame. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:52, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. My concerns have been dealt with. Dudley Miles (talk) 08:57, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 14:32, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.