Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sozin's Comet: The Final Battle/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 21:48, 6 December 2008.

Sozin&

 * Nominator(s): NuclearWarfare, User:Haha169, User:Rau J

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I believe that this article meets the FA Criteria. That's the only thing that matters, right? Oh, and also because this article specifically is part of a topic (Avatar: The Last Airbender episodes) that I am hoping to get to Featured Status. - NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  21:32, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the tools bit. - NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  22:02, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Image review - All of the images in this article are non-free and none of them have sufficient rationales at this point:
 * Image:AangOzai.png - The "purpose of use" provided for this image is insufficient - "It provides a necessary visual aid for the Sozin's Comet article". This is essentially illustration and Wikipedia's fair use guidelines specifically require that non-free images provide more than illustration. Thus, this image needs a much stronger justification for inclusion or it needs to be deleted.
 * New image used; this one is being tagged for deletion. - NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  01:02, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Image:Sozin's comet.png - The source for this image is listed as Wikipedia's upload page - that is not a source. The copyright holder is not listed. The "purpose of use" is blatantly false - this image is not used in the infobox. Again, this purpose of use must be strengthened or the image must be deleted.
 * I believe it was used in the infobox at some prior point. But now, the actual image is unnecessary, so I'm removing it from the article and tagging it for deletion. - NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  00:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Image:Lion Turtle Sage02d.jpg - The copyright holder is not listed. The purpose of use needs to be strengthed - explain why the image is necessary. Why does the reader need to see this picture? Why are words not enough to describe this character?
 * Updated slightly, though I'll probably have to do some more. - NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  00:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Updated fully. --haha169 (talk) 01:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Image:Book 3 Volume 4 Avatar.jpg - This fair use rationale needs to list the copyright holder.
 * Done + more things. --haha169 (talk) 05:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

For help on non-free images, particularly on writing "purpose of use" statements, see this dispatch on non-free images. Awadewit (talk) 00:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Image concerns have been addressed. Awadewit (talk) 15:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak oppose - For the moment. The prose isn't so great. &mdash; Ceran  ♦ ♦ ( speak) 01:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC) Work includes:
 * The four-part movie premiere averaged 5.6 million viewers,[5] as well as receiving a 195% increase in ratings over the previous year's like-time period. - Verb tense does not agree
 * Fixed. - NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  02:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Is http://hybridfire.net/blog/2008/07/24/avatar-the-last-airbender-smashes-through-tv-ratings-with-sozins-comet/ really a reliable source? It's an internet blog, so I'll let others decide.
 * New sources. - NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  03:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sozin's Comet was met with positive critical reviews throughout, with reviewer Ed Liu going as far as stating that it made "Avatar" one of the finest animated television series ever made"... - Why is Avatar in quotes?
 * Fixed. - NuclearWarfare  contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  02:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That night, however, Aang mysteriously disappears into the water. - Does the episode mention which body this was? Perhaps a specific sea?
 * I'm afraid it doesn't mention what sea it was. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  02:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What about the area they're in? &mdash; Ceran  ♦ ♦ ( speak) 02:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing of that either. The show is pretty vague when it comes to places. And in this case, the area does not matter, because Aang ends up disappearing anyway. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  02:49, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll probably have more comments later, but I'm busy (with Halo, lol), so I'll be back tomorrow. &mdash; Ceran  ♦ ♦ ( speak) 01:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Additional comments
 * This cumulates in Aang ultimately defeating the Fire Lord by removing his bending capabilities. - replace is with when, and change rest of sentence
 * Couldn't find that quote. Done --haha169 (talk) 05:14, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In lead. &mdash; Ceran  ♦ ♦ ( speak) 20:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The four-part movie premiere averaged 5.6 million viewers, and received a 195% increase in ratings over the previous year's like-time period.[5] - Like time?
 * Yes, it means "same time". Couldn't find a better word choice and "like-time" is what the ref used. --haha169 (talk) 05:14, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've done a minor fix, myself. Others:
 * Could you briefly explain who each character is in the lead?
 * That would be for the series article. I don't really think episode article need to do that. --haha169 (talk) 05:14, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sozin's Comet has received some negative feedback as well, most notably the difficulty in understanding the voice of an important, new character: the Lion Turtle. - Remove comma between important and new, doesn't flow.
 * Done --haha169 (talk) 05:14, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a shame that so many convenient plot twists set us up for a humongous deus ex machina that allows the Fire Lord to be thwarted without dying". - period in front of quote, please.
 * The quote is a part of the sentence, not the sentence itself, so the the period should be outside, unless I'm mistaken. --haha169 (talk) 05:14, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Use an ellipse, if possible. &mdash; Ceran  ♦ ♦ ( speak) 20:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Comments - From a person who knows less than nothing about anime-type shows, here are some general thoughts. I didn't read the text closely, so please don't consider this a comprehensive list of everything that needs fixing.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 01:32, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "Top slot" is used several times throughout the article. Could you replace this, it's kind of boring.
 * Only used twice, but I replaced one of them. --haha169 (talk) 05:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yours, &mdash; Ceran  ♦ ♦ ( speak) 18:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Link Joaquim Dos Santos in the lead and the infobox.
 * Done. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  03:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Reference 10 (the dead link) can apparently be replaced by an archived version. I recommend using a specific version from the Internet Archive to replace the link; just getting rid of the dead link tag will be beneficial.
 * Internet archive does not have anything for this; I checked. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  02:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Done - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  02:54, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Several websites that I'm not familiar with. What makes News Blaze.com (ref 5), Broadcast Newsroom (ref 6), Hybridfire.net (ref 7), NickSplat.com (ref 10), Distant Horizon (ref 14), Toon Zone (ref 15), and Crave Online (ref 16) reliable sources? I'm sure that at least a few of them are fine, but I figure it's better to ask about them, due to my lack of knowledge on the best sources for the subject.
 * News Blaze: DYK accepted this, and anyway, it says that the source of all those statistics are directly from Nickelodeon. --haha169 (talk) 03:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Broadcast Newsroom: replaced --haha169 (talk) 03:43, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hybridfire: Not used anymore
 * Nicksplat: Official Nickelodeon website, I think
 * Distant Horizon: Replaced
 * Toon Zone: We're not using them to get factual evidence, but rather reviews for the receptions section. --haha169 (talk) 03:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Crave Online: Same as above--haha169 (talk) 03:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone, please feel free to do these. I'm just listing them out for now. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  03:22, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Print publishers, like the San Francisco Examiner and The New York Times, need italics. Non-printed publishers, like SciFi and Apple, don't. The italics for the series name in the one reference are fine.
 * Checklinks says otherwise, but I'll do so. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  02:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * En dashes are needed for the episode and production numbers in the infobox, and for the episode number in ref 3.
 * Could you or someone else do this one please? I'm unsure how to do it. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <font color="purple"My work 03:19, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * They already are en dashes. --haha169 (talk) 03:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * They weren't, but they are now. Check edit box to see how they are done. Brianboulton (talk) 09:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments -
 * Newspaper titles should be in italics. If you're using cite news you use the work field for the titles
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose - below my 20kb dividing line for FA/GA, so I have qualms about the comprehensiveness of this article to the level I feel is required by the FA criteria. I think it's okay enough for GA, but for television episodes, I have a minimum of 20KB for 22-minute episodes, 30KB for 45-minute episodes, and and 40KB for 90-minute episodes. Articles like 200 (Stargate SG-1) and The Principal and the Pauper were criticised within the FA process for being a similar length. Sceptre (talk) 17:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Not comprehensive enough. Not even close to FA. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 19:10, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Answering both these opposes at once: I would disagree, but I am willing to withdraw this FAC and rewrite if you deem it necessary. What more do you feel we should add? - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  00:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * More production and reception details: one or two paragraphs about each are pitifully small for an FA. I would suggest withdrawing and adding more. Sceptre (talk) 00:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Just going through WP:FA?: I noticed no rules regarding length, except "It stays focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary detail." This article is quite the opposite. It stays on track and does not enter unnecessary detail. Comprehensiveness: "it neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context" also passes, IMHO because this article incorporates everything verifiable that is on the internet. --haha169 (talk) 04:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Look at the second- and third-longest episode FAs, Trapped in the Closet (South Park) and Through the Looking Glass (Lost). One's animation, and the other's as long as Sozin's Comet. They're comprehensive to the point the featured article criteria asks. I am struggling to believe that, for a TV series as popular as this, you can only find two paragraphs of production and reception. Have you tried Nickelodeon-published magazines or Google News? Sceptre (talk) 12:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose we could technically find more for reception, though it will be just much of the same. Also, production won't be that much. We would essentially be copying the information from the Season 3 article, because I have no information to indicate that they produced this any differently. - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  19:55, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer if S3 production details that pertain to this episode are placed in the articles, yes. Sceptre (talk) 23:30, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tried Google News, but I do not have Nickelodeon magazine subscriptions and I do not believe they are online. I honestly have found nothing pertaining to the production of this episode, only the production of the seasons in general. I'm not sure production could be expanded much without repeating the information in the infobox multiple times. --haha169 (talk) 00:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Question from the nominator - Would you say that this source would be OK to use as a review in the reception section? - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  01:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It may still be a bit short, but I was hoping you guys would ignore your minimum size counts and tell us if the current version is comprehensive enough. If not, what else can we fix and add? - NuclearWarfare  <sup style="color:green;">contact me <sub style="color:purple;">My work  15:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.