Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sri Lankan Tamil people/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 15:53, 29 August 2008.

Sri Lankan Tamil people

 * Nominator(s): Taprobanus (talk)

I'm nominating this article for featured article because this article has under gone Peer review and a successful GA review. I think this is ready for an FA status. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 17:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - Ref 76 is broken. — Wackymacs ( talk  ~  edits ) 09:00, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is now fixed. Watchdogb (talk) 13:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support Oppose: The lead is too. lengthy. There are many sentences which need not be present in the lead. Examples Up to eighty percent of Sri Lankan Tamils are Hindus, primarily members of the Saivaite sect. Most of the rest are Christians, with Roman Catholics predominating and a small Protestant minority. Too. much of subgroup details when the corresponding details are present in the main prose. Look at the amount of history details in the Third Para. In short, the Lead needs to be compressed and unnecessary details need to be removed. Kensplanet  Talk  E-mail  Contributions  10:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments

which opens up more questions than it answers. Of the 3 groups then discussed in Moors article, none is said to be Tamil--or it is a very hidden statement. Same when this article is linked in other places as well. Hmains (talk) 21:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * second paragraph of heading has a link to Moors actually Islam in Sri Lanka
 * Sri Lankan Moors predominantly speak Tamil as their mother tongue, however, they claim to trace their ancestry from Arabs and not "Dravidian" like Tamils. The current coverage of Sri Lankan Moors in wikipedia is lackluster and filled with opinion and POV pushing. Once this article is finished, Sri Lankan Moors article will be developed into featured article. Watchdogb (talk) 22:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We cant wouch for the Sri Lankan Moors or Islam in Sri Lanka articles. They are not peer reviewed nor GA quality. All what the Sri Lankan Tamil article needs to say is that Sri Lankan Tamils are distinct from X and Y although X and Y also speak Tamil and cite it properly which it does. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 17:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have unlinked Sri Lankan Muslims from Islam in Sri Lanka. Taprobanus (talk) 12:23, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Support and comment
 * An interesting read, although I wouldn't claim any great expertise in this topic, other than having been to the country. Some of the paragraphs are far too long (history, para 2), and need splitting. I think that the left-aligned images immediately after a heading are not in accordance with MoS and should be moved down a bit or to the right jimfbleak (talk) 09:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Done with para, pictures in process Taprobanus (talk) 21:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done with Pics Taprobanus (talk) 16:48, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - References have been reviewed and updated by Doibot. -- Meld    shal    42?   19:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: Watchdogb, you shouldn't cap comments made by others (see WP:FAC instructions). Please doublecheck with everyone whose comments you've capped to make sure they concur (example, Nishkid64 and others).  You should only cap resolved issues raised by you under your sig.  See Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Sri Lankan Tamil people.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 21:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There are still mixed citation styles (see WP:CITE, don't mix with cite xxx templates), there are numerous issues with WP:MOS, images left-aligned below third-level headings, it's not clear that the  templates are used correctly to reflect summary sytle, some of those appear to be  or, citations need work, there are missing publishers (example:  ^ Marschall, Wolfgang (2003). "Social Change Among Sri Lankan Tamil Refugees in Switzerland". Retrieved on December 22, 2007.) and newspapers should be in WP:ITALICS, see WP:LAYOUT regarding lengthy list in See also, can any of that be incorporated into the article, if not, why is it needed, if already in the article, why is it in See also, WP:OVERLINKing needs attention (example, most readers know what rice is, there's more), averages in the text include standard deviations without explaining them to the reader, is that really needed.  Work to be done here, that's just a very quick pass to try to get this moving from the bottom of the page.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 22:15, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * (Standard deviations are included here but never explained to the reader: is their inclusion necessary?) The study of the genetic admixture also indicated that the Tamils of Sri Lanka have received a higher contribution from the Sinhalese of Sri Lanka (55.20% +/- 9.47) than from the Tamils of India (16.63% +/- 8.73), and the Sinhalese of Sri Lanka have a higher contribution from the Tamils of southern India (69.86% +/- 0.61) than from the Bengalis of northeast India (25.41% +/- 0.51). Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 14:56, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed yes its is confusing Taprobanus (talk) 15:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed duplicate in See also Taprobanus (talk) 16:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Added three missed publisher information Taprobanus (talk) 20:17, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed as much as possible over linking Taprobanus (talk) 16:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * User:Redtigerxyz kindly helped us with the MOS issues on pics. Hope it satisfies requirements Taprobanus (talk) 16:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There are still left-aligned images under headings, and there's a more serious problem with WP:ACCESSIBILITY, WP:LEAD and WP:LAYOUT. Templates in the lead belong under the text; there are two templates linked before the text in the lead.  The options are to move them, convert the first to an infobox, convert them to horizontal templates and place them at the bottom of the article per WP:LAYOUT, maybe there are other options. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 16:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * One of the template has been changed to Infobox and the other template has been moved to the bottom of the LEAD section. Watchdogb (talk) 03:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Clarified Main and See also articles properly. Taprobanus (talk) 16:48, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Strong oppose. This far in, I think the article should be withdrawn and worked on solidly. I've started the first two paras and got bogged down in so many instances of vagueness and poor expression that it can't possible be considered close to promotable this time. Sorry. —This is part of a comment by Tony1 which was interrupted by the following:
 * To reduce the blue-splotch size, could you pipe "and the enforced disappearance of a large number of people" to just two words?
 * DoneTaprobanus (talk) 15:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Second sentence: you're listing three similar things, so please don't vary the wording for each: "They constitute a majority in the northern region and the eastern region holds a significant number, but they are a minority in the rest of the country." No. Try "They are a majority in the northern region, live in significant numbers in the eastern region, and are a minority in the rest of the country." I'd still like to check this wording against the actual percentages in each of the three regions.
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 15:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The Sri Lankan Tamil history is politically contested but is authenticated from the 2nd century BCE." This is very woolly. What does "polically contested" mean, and by whom? What does "authenticated" mean, and by whom? Please remove this sentence or tighten it up so it actually means something.
 * DoneTaprobanus (talk) 15:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Most modern Sri Lankan Tamils derive their ancestry from descendants of the former Jaffna kingdom in the north of the island and feudal divisions called Vannimais from the east." What, so most individual "are" (not all those words, please) descended from the X and the Y, both? Make it clear. Do some people trace it back to X, and others back to Y? I'm confused.
 * I removed and and inserted or, will that do Taprobanus (talk) 16:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC) Yep. Tony   (talk)  03:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "although caste distinctions are no longer as strong as they once were"—MoS breach; please read "Vague chronological expressions", whatever it's called. "Once were" means ... when? You don't have to pin it down to a precise century, but it must be known whether it was 100 or 1000 years ago. Tony   (talk)  12:28, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed sentence Taprobanus (talk) 15:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

 Comment  : Most problems commented here are personal opinions. We had a heavy copy edit by a established copy editor and a former member of LOCE. First and last points are the only essential part that may need be fixed and will be edited. Point two is again something that is the users personal opinion since the copy editor felt that the sentence brought a better flow to the article. Essentially the point here is that while one user may feel that the wording is improper, another user feels that it is proper. Personal opinion and cannot be alluded to because if the article was to be edited to this user's wishes another user may well come along and suggest the opposite. Point three seems to be caused by the user's unfamiliarity with the civil war and the subsequent politics in the country. We could say that X politically challenges the Sri Lankan Tamil history but Y says otherwise. We did not do that because that sentence alone will bring edit wars on the article. Majority of one ethnic group politically challenges the Sri Lankan Tamil history while the other ethnic group says otherwise, but the history has been authenticated by more scholars. If you take a minute to read the history section things will be clear. Point four is again being misinterpreted by the user since they did not take a look at the relating section of the article. Again I must remind to user that this article was the subject of Copy edit my a couple of user including an established copy editor. Point one and four are actually something that is not a result of personal opinion and misinterpretation but concerns within wiki rules. It shall be edited. Thanks Watchdogb (talk) 13:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Tony's comments although may be too harsh about needing to withdraw this nomination should still be addressed. He is right about confusing the readers and imprecise language. Where pointed out, I have fixed them. Taprobanus (talk) 16:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm disappointed to find that this old argument is being run to devalue a reviewer's remarks. Everything I write is my personal opinion. Now, if you want to debate further the four ways in which scoundrels try to game the reviewing system, let's do so on my talk page. Here, let's be professional, please. Who has copy-edited the text, and how many times it has been copy-edited, is totally irrelevant. We are concerned only with the product. These were merely examples of why the text needs scrutiny throughout. Do you know how to locate good copy-editors in this area? Tony   (talk)  03:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Anything specific you need done. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 12:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, Tony1, I did the copyedit, and I'll be happy to address whatever issues you still have with the text. -- AnnaFrance  (talk  &mdash;  blunders)  13:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Spot check on prose: two short paras in the middle.
 * "The Sri Lankan Tamils, (or Ceylon Tamils) are descendants of the Tamils of the old Jaffna kingdom or those of east coast feudal divisions called Vannimais". Is that an "either or" (the second one in the sentence)—in which case use "both ... and", or an "equative or" (in which case use parentheses instead). "East coast" could have a hyphen.
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The Indian Tamils, (or Hill Country Tamils), are descendants of"—remove both commas.
 * "and in the capital of Colombo"—so what is this city that is the capital of Colombo? Is Colombo a state? (Remove "of", of course).
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Live in ... inhabit"—are you trying to be various in your choice of words? When presenting a straight contrast, as here, don't: use the same wording.
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "which included G. G. Ponnambalam, a leader of the Tamil Congress"—so there were a number of such leaders at the time? ("a").
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "lead by S. J. V. Chelvanayakam"—"lead" is a chemical element (Pb). Word order a little clumsy here, too.
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Why haven't you heeded my earlier advice to withdraw this and work on it properly? There's nothing wrong with a timely resubmission. It can't possibly pass at present. Tony  (talk)  11:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Tony while appreciating your sentiments we also have number of other editors who support this submission. I will leave it to Sandy to decide the final status. Also thanks again for your comments, it is difficult to get good advice in Wikipedia Taprobanus (talk) 12:42, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, there's a tendency to sit around doing nothing, hoping that a vote-count of Supports will get it across the line. It's not a vote. I see that my colleague's comment above "These examples also illustrate the verbosity and redundancy that ruin the article." is not being taken seriously, but instead resisted. Have you found one or more good copy-editors by researching edit summaries in the edit-history pages of similar articles? Tony   (talk)  06:34, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have not resited any request for change, in fact I have tried to prune it down to it's bare essentials. Do take a look. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 00:16, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Tony, what you may not see is that [141 edits done by Anna were all copy edits. A lot of emphasis was placed copy-editing this article - a task I believe was accomplished. [[User:Watchdogb|Watchdogb]] (talk) 18:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Responding to a request to revisit, on my talk page, I had another look at the lead. I have to wonder why this nomination remains on the FAC page. It's way below the standard of writing required.
 * The infobox isn't wrapping.
 * Opening sentence: "Tamil speaking" requires a hyphen.
 * "Attested" is not really the right word. "There is evidence of the presence of ...".
 * "are mostly Hindus with a seizable Christian population"—is it violent?
 * "Sri Lankan Tamil literature, written on topics including religion and the sciences, flourished during the ..."—Remove "written and both commas.
 * What exactly is the "modern period"? This anticipates the definition further down, I suppose; it shouldn't. Be specific here ("since the blah century").
 * "themes relating to the civil war and its effects"—remove the last three words ("relating to" does it).
 * MOSLINK says not to link the names of such countries as "Britain".
 * "deathS".
 * "ALthough" would be better.
 * "created a Tamil diaspora to locations around the world". Nope.
 * I hate "It is estimated that ..."—Say it as a fact and provide the citation, or don't say it. Tony   (talk)  11:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Tony, thanks all Taken care of Taprobanus (talk) 13:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments I think the article's content in general covers all the topics that needs to be covered regarding the history of of Tamils in Sri Lanka. However, a few details need to be ironed out. I have read this article in depth before the peer review (my comments are available on the talk page). So here goes, —This is part of a comment by Dineshkannambadi which was interrupted by the following:
 * The history of Tamils in Sri Lanka spans 2000 years. Is it really necessary to focus two whole paragraphs in the lead on just the civil war that has spanned 50 odd years? Perhaps just two lines would do, because I am sure the rest has been explained in detail in the later section on civil war and "rise of militancy".
 * The Lead section reflects the four fold organization of the article. Each paragraph is synopsis of the section. History, Society, Politics and Migrations. Sri Lankan Tamil identity is a modern post colonial identity as indicated in the article hence the prominence of politics and resultant migrations section. Taprobanus (talk) 13:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They constitute a majority in the northern region, live in significant numbers in the eastern region. I think this statement could be more specific. North and east are kind of vague. From the map I see three districts where they are a clear majority. Perhaps these districts could be named and the sentence made to appear lower in the lead. The very second line of the first paragraph is not the right place. Where as, Sri Lankan Tamil history attested from the 2nd century BCE. Most modern Sri Lankan Tamils derive their ancestry ... is where it should be.
 * Changed from region to province and linked it and moved the sentence south Taprobanus (talk) 12:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I dont see mention of some cultural and social topics-ethnic group names, food, music & dance, all of which could be put in just one paragraph of 4-6 lines. This would be a good place to introduce the reader to what follows.
 * Some of the details were pruned down (such as regional groups) as part of the FA commentary process as exessive information Taprobanus (talk) 13:12, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The section "Tamil-speaking communities" should appear after the "History" section and within "Society" section. The reader should first be introduced to the history as it appears in the first para of the lead .Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 12:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Their literature flourished during the medieval period in the courts of the Jaffna kingdom, and in the modern period is distinguished by an emphasis on the civil war and its effects. The first part merely states literature flourished, the second part emphasises on the topic of literature, namely, civil war efects. For consistancy, the medieval literature in Jaffna kingdom should be qualified. Was the literature didactic, expositions etc. Dont worry too much about length of lead, we can very easily pull up successful FAs with lengthy leads.
 * Took care of it myself.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 23:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Are there any contradictory/opposing views to these comment. I don't follow Sri Lankan politics what so ever and do not have an opinion on the issue as a whole.Since 1948, when Sri Lanka became independent, successive governments have adopted policies that have benefited the majority Sinhalese at the expense of the minority Sri Lankan Tamils.[120] Designed to assist the Sinhalese community in such areas as education and public employment, these policies also severely handicapped the middle class Tamil youth, who found it more difficult during the 1970s and 1980s to enter a university or secure employment.
 * I have made it as neutral as possible, take a look now Taprobanus (talk) 18:58, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have changed the sentene but kept the same meaning. Please ensure it now is consistant with your reference books.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 19:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Dineshkannambadi (talk) 17:12, 20 August 2008 (UTC) Support All issues have been resolved. The author has made a serious effort to cover a vast topic.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 23:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * by 2007 they reported that there was escalating political killings, child recruitment, abductions, and armed clashes which created a climate of fear in the northern and eastern sections of the country. The report also specifically pointed to mass killings, such as the murder of five students in Trincomalee, the murder of 17 employees of Action Against Hunger, and the Chencholai bombing in which 51 female students died along with others.
 * RemovedTaprobanus (talk) 20:24, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The last part is unnecessary: "These dialects are also used by ethnic groups other than Tamils such as Muslims, Veddhas, and Sinhalese who consider themselves separate.
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 19:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unnecessary detail. Just date the work in brackets. Those who are interested in getting details will click on the link page. the grammatical treatise on Tamil which is dated from 3rd century BCE to 10th CE,[72][73] with some modern scholars preferring to date it not as a single entity but in parts or layers which are estimated to have been written between the 3rd century BCE and the 5th century CE.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 19:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done
 * Unnecessary detail about drummers and their occupation. Has nothing to do with language.These drummers have historically played an important role as ritual drummers at funerals and folk temples, and as heralds and traditional weavers. They also maintained the family records of their feudal lords and even practiced medicine and astrology in folk traditions. Dineshkannambadi (talk) 20:14, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 20:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose The article is badly written, there are long, snaking sentences, verbosity and repetition. It is very difficult to read and this is not helped by extraneous details cluttering up sentences, references to who said what, (rather than just giving the citation), and a pretentious style. I suspected a non-neutral point of view several occasions. Here are some of the snakes: —This is part of a comment by Graham Colm which was interrupted by the following:
 * There are two groups of Tamils in Sri Lanka: the Sri Lankan Tamils (or Ceylon Tamils), who are descendants of either the Tamils of the old Jaffna kingdom or those of east coast feudal divisions called Vannimais, and the Indian Tamils or Hill Country Tamils, who are descendants of bonded laborers sent from Tamil Nadu to Sri Lanka in the 19th century to work on tea plantations.
 * Dont understand the concern here, what is the violation of WP:NPOV? Beacuse these are facts Taprobanus (talk) 16:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I offered this as an example of a snake, an over long sentence that has to be read more than once to be understood. It needs to be chopped up:
 * There are two groups of Tamils in Sri Lanka: the Sri Lankan Tamils and the Indian Tamils. The Sri Lankan Tamils, (or Ceylon Tamils) are descendants of the Tamils of the old Jaffna kingdom or those of east coast feudal divisions called Vannimais. The Indian Tamils, (or Hill Country Tamils), are descendants of bonded laborers sent from Tamil Nadu to Sri Lanka in the 19th century to work on tea plantations.

Which is still not perfect, but better. The whole article suffers from this difficult, rambling style. The Oxford Guide to Plain English says this: More people fear snakes than full stops, so they recoil when a long sentence comes hissing across the page...What makes [them] hard work is the length and muddle, with asides and additions tagged on as they sprang into the writer's mind. Graham Colm  Talk 18:04, 20 August 2008 (UTC) ndia from inscriptions dated to the 13th century. These examples also illustrate the verbosity and redundancy that ruin the article. For known to have travelled from Sri Lanka to foreign lands, why not say emigrated. The article needs some radical editing, preferably by an editor fresh to it; it's a long way from FA standard. Graham Colm Talk 15:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done Taprobanus (talk) 18:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The heterogeneous origins of the current Sri Lankan people can also be read in the mythical, legendary, and historical records of Sri Lanka such as the Buddhist chronicles Mahavamsa and the medieval Tamil chronicle Yalpana Vaipava Malai, both of which mention the legend of Prince Vijaya, who, with a band of followers, landed in Sri Lanka in 543 BCE from northwest India.
 * Shortened and done Taprobanus (talk) 16:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The earliest Tamil speakers known to have traveled from Sri Lanka to foreign lands were members of a merchant guild calling itself Tenilankai Valanciyar (Valanciyar from Lanka of the South), who were discovered to have been in South I
 * To use the word emigrate would be completely wrong as they were merchant guild that has left behind inscriptions in South India. This is directly from the source. Taprobanus (talk) 16:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But fixed the sentence any Taprobanus (talk) 15:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Images —This is part of a comment by Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs which was interrupted by the following:
 * Image:Polanaruwa.Valaikkara.Inscription.jpg - as a fixed piece of work, meets criteria, but is currently missing source. License provided.
 * Fixed source Taprobanus (talk) 22:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Sri Lanka Native Tamil.svg - free image, source and license
 * Image:Sri Lanka-Trincomalee-Tempel.JPG - free image, source and license
 * Image:Vankalai60.jpg -stated as released into public domain; is this verified that the site owner has allowed this? (Also there is the watermark and date on the pic.)
 * Removed Taprobanus (talk) 22:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:ACM 1890.gif - can reasonably assume that it has lapsed to public domain, source and license.
 * Image:Navalar2.JPG - can stamps be copyrighted? If so, this is a derivative work and thus nonfree.
 * Removed Taprobanus (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Hoppers.jpg - missing source, duplicate file
 * Removed Taprobanus (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:SJF Chelvanayagam.jpg - I call bullshit on this being released as free by the author. Get me a source and author and proper license.
 * Removed Taprobanus (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Tamil eelam stamp.jpg - same as stamp image above.
 * Not exactly Tamil Eelam does not have copy right as it is not a real country Taprobanus (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But removed anyway Taprobanus (talk) 18:27, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:LTTE car with soldiers in Killinochi april 2004.jpg - free image, source and license
 * Image:Sri Kamadchi Ampal temple 6039530.jpg - free image, source and license
 * Image:Canadian Sri Lankan Tamil Children.jpg - free image, source and license
 * Image:Yogaswami AS.jpg - missing source, and author, possible suspect license
 * Will work on it Taprobanus (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like it is legit, please follow linkTaprobanus (talk) 16:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:SLTamilpeople.jpg - because of the above, needs to be checked and may be entirely invalid as free.
 * Will update it Taprobanus (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Additional scrutiny is needed on several of the images. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 03:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking through the current revision of the article, all the above concerns have been addressed. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 03:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Strong Support and Comment The images are free and licence has been provided and the article is very well balanced and nom has very good job. See all issues raised and have been overcome .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 23:12, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment Please check. Mm40 (talk | contribs) 18:08, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. Watchdogb (talk) 18:27, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment –Black Falcon (Talk) 16:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support - It is an informative article that offers comprehensive coverage of the topic, is well-referenced, and well-written. The comments opposing promotion to FA seem to focus primarily on two issues related to prose: poor and repetition. Since August 20, the article has received nearly 200 edits, most of which were aimed at fixing problems with expression. Also in that time, the article's length has been cut by more than 1,200 words (18%). At this time, my only remaining suggestions are to arrange the images so as to avoid gaps in the article text and delete or incorporate the various hidden comments and images. The latter is not a major issue (the text in question is, after all, hidden from readers), and the former is something that varies depending on screen resolution, so I'm not sure whether a 'perfect' solution is possible. –Black Falcon (Talk) 22:44, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * For the sake of disclosure: I've made in excess of 40 edits to the article, but they were mostly minor edits involving copy-editing. –Black Falcon (Talk) 22:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose - references are not formatted consistently. Secondly, 1a, per Tony and Graham.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 02:01, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you point out one or more of the inconsistencies in refernce formatting? I'd be willing to try to correct that issue. Thanks, –Black Falcon (Talk) 02:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 (a) well-written: its prose is engaging, even brilliant, and of a professional standard; I think it has come a long way since Tony made that comment Taprobanus (talk) 12:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * references are not formatted consistently - I have tried to look for and remedy this situation. Do you have any other examples Taprobanus (talk) 15:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I meant that the usage of "p" and "pp" and using dots or no dots and spaces or no spaces are not consistent.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 00:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I fixed it, I think. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:55, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Should there be a period at the end of citations (for instance, compare refs #86 and #87)? –Black Falcon (Talk) 01:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * From my experience, full citations need a period and a citation that comes afterwards and just has a page number does not. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * From recent FA's like Hoysala_empire, looks like the pp and p is now resolved by Ottava Rima's edits Taprobanus (talk) 15:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - I've read through the whole thing and learned a lot. Any problems seem to be easily addressed and not enough of a concern to not support. I don't see anything large or outstanding. I made a few minor copy edits here and there, but couldn't determine anything that was really fundamentally wrong. Ottava Rima (talk) 22:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose, 1a. Below, I cite some of the reasons this is not ready.  Overall, there are quite a lot of text glitches, inconsistency, and organizational problems.  Prevalent passive voice obscures or eliminates the subject from sentences. It really needs attention from two people:  a copyeditor and someone familiar with the topic.  There are prose issues that a copyeditor can fix, and there are structural/topical issues.  Unfortunately longer articles tend to sap a lot of strengh so many times multiple copyeditors are needed or multiple passes from one good copyeditor.
 * "The majority of Sri Lankan Tamils are Hindus and the rest are Christians." This implies there are no non-religious Tamils. Do your sources back up this claim?  It is not stated clearly in the article.
 * It is almost impossible to claim that all Sri Lankan Tamils are followers of a religion. I have reworded the sentence. Watchdogb (talk) 14:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "During the modern period, it is distinguished by an emphasis on themes relating to the civil war..." What civil war?  It is a rhetorical question, but we have not been told about it anywhere yet.
 * It is not linked to the proper article. Watchdogb (talk) 14:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Sri Lankan Tamil dialects are noted for their archaism and retention of words not in every day use in neighboring Tamil Nadu state in India." Grammar... surely the neighboring?
 * Yes, your correct. It is now fixed Watchdogb (talk) 14:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The ensuing civil war has resulted in the death of more than 70,000..." Sorry, but 70,000 what?  Tamils?  Sri Lankans?  Fighters?
 * It is now fixed to say 70,000 people. Watchdogb (talk) 14:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "It is estimated that..." Strongly prefer active voice to identify who estimates.
 * Would this concern be fixed if the sentence is written as An estimated 800,000 Tamils have been displaced within Sri Lanka, and many have left the country for destinations such as India, Canada, and Europe. Watchdogb (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The article lacks consistency in hyphenation. Ex. "Tamil speaking" and "Dravidian language-speaking"
 * Tamil is a single language and Dravidian refers to a group of language (including Tamil). Since there is an awkward change in grammar a hyphen is necessary. Watchdogb (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "It is believed that cultural diffusion..." More passive voice obscures subject.
 * "Archaeologists have noted cultural similarities in burial practices in South India and Sri Lanka as early as 10th century BCE. " Badly worded—reads like the archaeologists performed the action in the 10th century.
 * Fixed Taprobanus (talk) 01:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "However, Indian/south Indian history/archaeology" Avoid this use of slashes.
 * Fixed. Watchdogb (talk) 14:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "The Sri Lankan Tamils (or Ceylon Tamils) are descendants of the Tamils of the old Jaffna Kingdom and east-coast feudal divisions called Vannimais." Unclear how one can be a descendant of a feudal division.
 * Good point, changed it to chieftaincy which is self governing tribal organization. Taprobanus (talk) 22:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Most Sri Lankan Tamils live in the Northern and Eastern provinces and in the capital Colombo, whereas most Hill Country Tamils live in the central highlands." You have introduced "Sri Lankan Tamil" and "Indian Tamil" as parallel terms previously.. but this is not parallel usage.
 * Fixed Taprobanus (talk) 20:50, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Today, both Tamil communities have a greater sense of solidarity and are more supportive of each other as a result of the ethnic conflict between the Sinhalese and Tamil populations." This sentence seems strangely interjected into an unrelated discussion and there is no supporting text.   How?  Why?
 * Moved the sentence up, do we have to explain why ? It simply says that although historically seen as seperate, they are in the process of merging as one community. Taprobanus (talk) 20:50, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Negombo Tamils have shown a continuous cultural assimilation..." Strange word choice.. how do you "show" an assimilation?
 * Fixed Taprobanus (talk) 01:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "This has been facilitated by caste myths..." Avoid beginning sentences with "this" in reference to a previous idea.  Restate.
 * Fixed Taprobanus (talk) 01:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed Taprobanus (talk) 21:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "It is estimated that the Negombo dialect is spoken..." Passive.
 * Would the following fix the problem ? Negombo dialect is spoken by an estimated 50,000 people who otherwise identify themselves as Sinhalese Watchdogb (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Most of those who identify as ethnic Tamils live in the coastal village Udappu.[48] There are also some Tamil Christians, chiefly Roman Catholics, who have preserved their heritage in the major cities such as Negombo, Chilaw, Puttalam, and also in villages such as Mampuri." Again, oddly interjected into a paragraph about place names.
 * Fixed. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 21:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Eastern Tamils inhabit a region that spans into the Trincomalee, Batticaloa, and Ampara districts." Spot the extra word.
 * I assume you are referring to the. It has been removed. Watchdogb (talk) 14:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "With a largely agrarian-based society..." Is an agrarian society different from an agrarian-based society? -- Laser brain   (talk)  04:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed Taprobanus (talk) 21:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Some of your concerns for more information are found from passages from the lead, which would not have context, as they are a summary of key points, and need to be kept minimized. Also, your comment like - "oddly interjected into a paragraph about place names" - doesn't reflect that the topic is Negombo Tamils, not place names. Your copy-edit points are important, but some of the rest you should reconsider. Ottava Rima (talk) 13:50, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment, ref #115 (http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Lka-summary-eng), takes me to Amnesty's homepage. D.M.N. (talk) 08:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks Taprobanus (talk) 21:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Support, I am willing to support this article in its nomination. It is well written and extensively researched. Though there have been previous issues, these have all been resolved, and it is my opinion that this article is ready for FA status. Well done to the article's creator and contributors for their hard work. J.T. Pearson (talk) 14:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Closing note, with four editors now asking for a copyedit, work may proceed better off-FAC, so I'm going to close the nom. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:49, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks with Micheal Devore willing to do copy edit, this can only improve with time Taprobanus (talk) 16:11, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.