Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 15:06, 14 August 2007.

Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Self-nomination: This article has been completely re-written since the days when it was a mere start-class article. It's currently a Good Article, and was only put on hold during its period of candidacy due to some minor points with references. A healthy number of images (all Fair-Use-Rationale-ed), good prose, when I put it up for VG Peer review it had too many citations... I think this article is fully deserving of FA status. UnaLaguna 12:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Oppose: I hate to object, because this article is really looking good and you've obviously put a lot of work into it. But, after giving a quick copyedit of the lead and Gameplay section, writing problems were a little too easy to find. Here are some problems:
 * Perhaps a little more about the story could be explained in the lead; it's still got room for expansion (the lead, that is). ✅
 * Jedi Outcast's gameplay is largely similar to its predecessors. Predecessors, as in plural? I only see one predecessor mentioned in the lead. ✅
 * usually killing enemies with blasters or a lightsaber (as is common in many action titles), The parenthetical comment here seems weird and out of place: it sounds like it's saying a blaster and lightsaber are common in many action titles, but even ignoring that, what is the point of it? ✅
 * As with previous games in the series, the player controls the protagonist Kyle Katarn: a former Jedi Knight who cut his link with The Force after straying close to the Dark Side, and at the start of the game is a mercenary working for the New Republic.[6] A colon is mistakenly used instead of a comma after Katarn, "straying close" is kinda vague (how about "almost succumbing" instead) and a new sentence should be started after Dark Side. ✅
 * Why is Billy Dee Williams the only voice actor mentioned? I understand he's the only one reprising his role from the films, but it seems unbalanced to not mention the other voice actors.
 * "Parts of the game" "Sections of the mission": These phrases are used too much, and almost shouldn't be used at all, as they're just too vague. ✅

That's just in Gameplay and part of the plot section, so make sure to run through the whole article.✅ '''... I think.'''

Also, several references are missing author's names, such as refs #5, 6, 13, 14 (I assume), and 25, just to name a few. ✅ Good work so far, but a few more problems to fix.--Dark Kubrick 19:10, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback. I knew when I was putting it up that the writing and other tiny things which gradually add up would be the thing which would be criticised. I do have a bit of an obsession with colons and semicolons, and lead sections have never really been my thing.


 * I'd agree with all your points, save the one regarding Billy Dee Williams. I figured, as he's the only one from the films, he's the only one notable enough to merit a brief mention (no disrespect to the other actors; I just never heard any of their names before). He's also the only voice actor actually mentioned outside the game's credits, which whilst I know doesn't set things in stone for Wikipedia policy, should at least count for something.


 * And don't feel bad about having to oppose: it's the summer holidays, and I need things to stave off boredom!


 * Update: by the magic of templates I've given you an idea of what I've done. I just finished going through and adding authors names to articles where a real-world name, not an alias (as was the case for two citations), has been provided. I'd go over the rest of the prose with a fine (metaphorical) comb, but I like sleep too much. UnaLaguna 20:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for addressing my concerns. Two more minor problems I see with the references is that (1) some don't list the publisher (read:website) while some others do, and (2), JediKnightII.net (used in refs #16 and 24) is a fan website, and therefore not reliable. I'm sure it could be easy finding replacements for those though.✅ Before you do that though, get some more sleep.✅--Dark Kubrick 22:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and I see your point with the Billy Dee Williams thing.--Dark Kubrick 22:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

All my objections have been addressed, except for the writing, which I feel could be tightened up a bit more,✅ and that the Gameplay section feels a little small (this is a new one). I mean, what else can you tell us about Force powers? I feel there could be more in that section.✅ I'm going on a 3-day vacation now, so I'll check on the article when I get back. Good luck.--Dark Kubrick 12:33, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The dreaded 1a!!! I've expanded the section on Force powers, but I'm apprehensive to expand this section further as this might result in turning it into a dreaded game guide. I'll really have a good attack at the prose now. UnaLaguna 14:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I did work with the prose on a bigger scale than I've done before, doing the old trick of printing it out and attacking it with a pen. I might have another copyedit again, just to be sure. UnaLaguna 21:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose—Not well written throughout. Here are samples.
 * "a first and third-person action game"—Read MOS on hyphens.✅
 * Why are single years linked? Read MOS on this. They go nowhere helpful for the reader. Please remove those trivial links throughout.✅
 * False contrast: "Jedi Outcast's gameplay is similar to its predecessor." (Add "that of")✅
 * "While most of the game involves dispatching enemies single-handedly, there are several puzzles which the player must solve." Better as "players must solve several problems". Same "there are" issue with "There are a number of combos which can be used,"—reword.
 * "Also involves"—remove the redundant "also".
 * "Powers are available in singleplayer and multiplayer, but more powers can be used in the latter." Why "but"?
 * "these can be played over LAN or the Internet, but is limited to"—Basic grammar. Tony 02:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've addressed a couple of the specific issues raised, and I'll go through and compare the entire text to the MOS. Sorry my response hasn't been sooner. UnaLaguna 14:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Due to other commitments I won't have much time to address this problem. As the sole unaddressed objection points concern the prose, I added the article to the list of FACs needing a copyedit at WP:LOCE. UnaLaguna 18:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.