Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Starvin' Marvin (South Park)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 19:31, 6 June 2009.

Starvin' Marvin (South Park)

 * Nominator(s): —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  19:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article as part of WikiProject South Park/Featured topic Drive/season 1. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  19:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose, 1a. I'm sorry but this is a long way from ready. The level of preparedness here indicates that the article required a peer review at the very least. There are basic problems apparent just in the lead; where I started reading randomly throughout the text, I easily located issues. A thorough, substantive copyedit is needed. Some random issues follow:
 * I responded to each item line-by-line. I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for, but I did and of course am willing to continue responding any other objections this way. As with the topic's previous two FAs, I didn't put in for a peer review because I thought the GAN process would serve as an acceptable alternative, but if it's really so bad that it can't be fixed by the FAC process (which I hope isn't the case) I will put in for that. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "In this episode, the boys send money ..." This needs to mostly stand alone as an article. You don't have to list out "the boys" but at least include a link for people wanting context.
 * I just threw in their first names, is that acceptable? —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Cartman is accidentally sent to Ethiopia himself, where he learned activist Sally Struthers is actually hoarding the charity's food for herself." Mixed tenses.
 * Fixed. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "The episode was written by ... writer Pam Brady." Written by a writer... you don't say.
 * My bad, fixed. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "The episode simultaneously serves as a satire for both American indifference toward the Third World and the humanitarianism industry itself." Mixing up tenses again; you've been writing about the episode in the past tense until now. Also, "both" is unnecessary.
 * Fixed. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "which was then about eight times the channel's average viewership." By now, I've forgotten it was Comedy Central, so it probably bears repeating.
 * Done. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "The episode reportedly offended Sally Struthers and made her cry." The last bit is not really of a proper tone. Later on, you could say it "affected her emotionally" or similar but let's not be this familiar. In the lead, cut it after her name.
 * I supposed you're right. I've replaced the wording in the lead and removed it from the article. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Cartman is accidentally sent to Ethiopia himself"; "the humanitarianism industry itself"; "In addition to the Starvin' Marvin character himself" All these phrases, just from the lead, demonstrate a penchant for inserted pronouns of dubious value at the end of things. Remove all of them and you haven't changed the meaning.
 * I've removed all of these you pointed out and a few others from the article you didn't. I'll keep this advice in mind for my future writing in general as well
 * "McDaniels, however, thinks he is crazy and ridicule him behind his back."
 * Reworded. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Despite this however, it was given a PG rating in the United Kingdom."
 * Reworded. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Inconsistency with logical quotation (see WP:LQ). The guideline is under discussion but you need to be consistent.
 * I only found three examples of inconsistency. For the most part I think it's OK (periods and commas outside the quotation marks for clauses, episodes, phrases; inside for full sentences). If you find any that I missed, please feel free to point them out or fix them yourself. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( contribs )  02:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * -- Laser brain  (talk)  22:18, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Response to Hunter Kahn: Thank you so much for addressing these points quickly. I understand your reason for foregoing the peer review, but it seems clear that the GA review was woefully inadequate in this case. GAN should never be considered a substitute for peer review or a good copyedit, in my opinion, for this very reason. I do think it warrants a thorough copyedit, as I mentioned above. -- Laser brain  (talk)  14:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments -
 * Current ref 13 (Kuypers, Janet...) needs a page number.
 * Is current ref 28 (Williamson..) a newspaper? It seems to be lacking the title of the newspaper.
 * I fixed both. —  Hunter  Kahn  ( c )  17:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - sorry. The prose is very poor and the are problems in almost every sentence. Here are some examples: I could go on and on, but I am in danger of pasting the whole article here. The prose is the poorest I have ever seen at FAC. Graham Colm Talk 17:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose - it's just not FA. I too suggest a PR. Dincher (talk) 01:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dincher, it would helpful to the nominator if you explained which criteria you are opposing on. Are you concurring with my 1a opposition? -- Laser brain  (talk)  01:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. Poor prose too. Dincher (talk) 02:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "In this episode, Cartman, Kenny, Kyle and Stan send money to an African charity to get a sports watch, but they are instead sent the Ethiopian child Starvin' Marvin." - hoping to get, or in return for?
 * "Cartman is accidentally sent to Ethiopia, where he learns activist Sally Struthers is actually hoarding the charity's food for herself" -why actually?
 * "The episode simultaneously served as a satire for American indifference toward the Third World and the humanitarianism industry." - the expression is "satire on".
 * "the episode introduced recurring characters Gerald Broflovski (Kyle's father) and Kenny's family members Stuart, Carol and Kevin McCormick." - recurring characters?
 * "After seeing a commercial about starving children in Africa, Cartman, Kenny, Kyle and Stan, not caring about the starving people there but rather wanting the free sports watch that comes with the sponsorship, send money to Sally Struthers' charity organization" - hopelessly convoluted.
 * "The boys take Marvin to an all-you-can-eat buffet, where he is shocked by how much food the townsfolk are consuming compared to his home country" - are we comparing a town with a country?
 * "Back at school, Mr. Garrison announces the food drive is a failure because students have brought in only a cans of creamed corn." - only a cans of creamed corn?
 * "the turkey DNA is growing so rapidly that they might take over the world if they cannot be stopped in South Park." - the DNA or the turkeys? Try "turkeys' DNA".
 * "Cartman, who had previously shown little care for the people living in poverty in Africa, is sent to Ethiopia and is unable to bear the lack of food and horrible conditions there." - but is unable, and horrible is much too vague.
 * "During a prayer to God says he is sorry he made fun of poor people." - Why on earth is God linked?
 * "Sally Struthers encourages viewers to donate money to provide food to starving children in Africa"- provide food for.
 * "The animators enjoyed creating the turkey battle scene, which was animated in widescreen aspect ratio while the rest of the episode was animated normally." I am sure it was not animated in widescreen aspect, it was probably filmed in it.
 * I guess I was too hasty in this nomination, and should have at the very least given it a thorough copy edit myself instead of depending on the GAN process. I'll definitely be putting it up for a peer review after I make the changes you guys have given. I do intend to bring it back after I do that, though, because I think the content is good, even though the prose needs work. Before this gets closed, do any of you guys have any feedback as far as the content? —  Hunter  Kahn  ( c )  19:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, the content is good, and most importantly, the sources seem reliable. Please point me to the PR when you are ready. I would like to help in return for your not shooting the messengers. Graham Colm  Talk 19:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: A peer review could help the article with its flaws and weak spots before being nominated for FA. I suggest a peer review. &mdash;Terrence and Phillip 20:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.