Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Syed Ahmed Khan

Syed Ahmed Khan
I submit to your attention this article about a key Indian Muslim political figure. Many facts are controversial, but fully researched and cited. I would like your help in cleaning up any/all enduring problems, especially on potential violations of WP:NPOV. I would like to have your support in making this a featured article. Thanks, Rama's arrow  01:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Support: Wow, thats one of the smoothest, in terms of flow and wording, articles I ever read. Even better it meets all criteria. I got to say Rama, with so many FA drives you really becoming a pro - Tutmosis  16:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you my friend - I really appreciate it. I've got to say I was a bit frightened when this FAC didn't get a single comment for more than 36 hours! Rama's arrow  16:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Support: Great article! Definitely FA material- it is well-referenced and has great formal language.  I do suggest that the Hindi-Urdu controversy be improved upon as I don't think it explains enough about how Hindi and Urdu are almost the same language.  Thanks!   Mar de Sin   Speak up!  19:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment. I didn't read it all but I am a little concerned with its reliance on internet sources. I would think enough scholarly books (that might be more representative of views about him?) have been written about him to believe that his article doesn't need to be so internet centric. gren グレン 19:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There seem to be six non-Internet sources out of 17 total.  Mar de Sin   Speak up!  20:43, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * But those are the ones cited less (in general). Also, they aren't necessarily peer reviewed works or... are they well known?  I cannot judge that.  What is the Gale Research one?  It doesn't seem that bibliography entry is full. gren グレン 22:57, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I found the article well-written, just a few minor hitches with the images. P0402020301.jpg is most probably from Pakistan. Even though its copyright has expired, the license needs to be corrected. "The Wisdom Fund" is based in Virginia, so images from it can also not be claimed under PD-India. Please check for others too. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 17:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A slight misunderstanding - the image belongs to the Social Reformer itself, which is PD-India - its not from Pakistan because the item was published in an area now located in India by Indian citizens. And the "Wisdom Fund" (whatever that is) does not hold copyright on this Social Reformer. Rama's arrow  19:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment Support. A few minor concerns:
 * "His paternal grandfather Syed Hadi held a mansab, a high-ranking administrative position and the title of Jawwad Ali Khan in the court of Alamgir II." - what does the title of Jawwad Ali Khan signify? Was this a positional title, or an alternative name for him?
 * "Subsequent tutors instructed him in mathematics, astronomy and Islamic jurisprudence." - Other tutors, at the same time? Or tutors who came later? If you're unsure, a neutral option would be to make it "Other tutors..."
 * "In 1842, he completed the Jila-ul-Qulub bi Zikr il Mahbub and the Tuhfa-i-Hasan and Tahsil fi jar-i-Saqil in 1844, focusing on religious and cultural subjects.[5] In 1852, he published the two works Namiqa dar bayan masala tasawwur-i-Shaikh and Silsilat ul-Mulk." - translations? I was particularly intrigued by some words I could recognized, and I'm eager to know their meanings, especially "masala" :) There are also other instances like this such as Tabyin-ul-Kalam etc.
 * In 1858, he was appointed to a high-ranking post at the court in Muradabad, where he began working on his most famous literary work. Publishing the booklet Asbab-e-Bhaghawath-e-Hind (The Causes of the Indian Mutiny) in 1859, Sir Syed studied the causes of the revolt. - was his most famous work the Asbab-e-Bhaghawath-e-Hind? Please don't leave any chance for ambiguity
 * "Supporters of Sir Syed contend that his political vision gave an independent political expression to the Muslim community, which aided its goal to secure political power in India." - Muslim political power in India is minimal, and Sir Syed had always feared that Muslims would be unable to gain adequate political representation in India. Do you mean the formation of a separate nation, Pakistan, since the article asserts that he advocated the Two-Nation Theory?
 * Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't the fact that he is knighted mean that he is an KBE/GBE in the Order of the British Empire? Or was the current practice not in use in his time? If that is so, then that should be mentioned in the intro, right after his name.
 * Could you inform me once you're done. Cheers! -- May the Force be with you! Shr e shth91 15:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi Shreshth - thanks for your input. I will answer point by point:


 * 1) "Jawwad Ali Khan" was like a royal name. Notable examples include Shaista Khan and Islam Khan. I've added this mention
 * 2) Also fixed the tutor thing.
 * 3) I'm afraid I couldn't find any Urdu translations of those titles. I could suggest catching hold of someone who knows Urdu or digging up the words in a dictionary yourself, but I would avoid that in case you somehow come up with an altered translation/meaning, which would violate WP:OR.
 * 4) Yes the Mutiny booklet was his most famous work.
 * 5) Muslim political power in India is minimal - your POV. The statement you mention asserts that Sir Syed helped create a Muslim political class. Before he did, there were no Muslim politicians/leaders, but his work helped create Muslim political bodies and leaders, whose mission was to secure Muslim power. Also, Sir Syed's life is quite far apart from partition, which was first asserted by Iqbal in 1930. Its not correct to make the assumption that he wanted partition, but it is true that he saw Muslims as a separate cultural, political group.
 * 6) The Order of the Star of India was a different title during India's time as a colony of the empire. Its not the same as the OBE/MBE. Rama's arrow  18:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 7) Changed to support. -- May the Force be with you! Shr e shth91 15:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I would support now. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 19:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Very nice now. Rlevse 15:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support - I had done an exhaustive review of the article during its PR. I have been going through all my points and also had another look at the article. All those points are addressed now and the article is very nice. Good work. - Aksi_great (talk) 18:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment per lack of reliable academic sources. Wikipedia should add new material online, rather than simply compile data from various websites. Google Books search found "The Life and Work of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan", by George Farquhar Irving Graham (1974), and "Sir Syed Ahmed Khan: The Saviour of Muslim India", by Syed Sami Ahmad (2002). Please use these for referencing. -- Ghirla  -трёп-  10:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand why you object, but I think that you should word it differently for clearer understanding. Rather than saying that the following works be used for references, it is preferable to point out references you find unreliable, or facts you find needing more reliable/neutral sources. This will both be helpful for the editors (for they would know what to look for), and also more comprehensively satisfy your objection (I believe that if the editors use the sources mentioned just once and sit back, it wouldn't be what you were looking for in the first place). — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 12:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've addressed your points - about 10 new citations from multiple books, including those you suggested. Rama's arrow  13:37, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Per above.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Well written and well documented. -- P.K.Niyogi 04:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)