Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Telopea speciosissima/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 22:59, 20 April 2010.

Telopea speciosissima

 * Nominator(s): Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:14, 10 April 2010 (UTC) and

What's not to like? The state emblem and a darn fine flower at that....and it's been attracting birds and looking nice and red for over 60 million years..... Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:14, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Psh, sixty million years is nothing... got a lot of these in your backyard? Anyhow, File:Australia Sydney AlfredHandel WaratahWindow.JPG needs a different license without an author/death date. I'm not really sure File:NSWWaratahsLogo.jpg has a strong enough rationale (it's also causing strange whitespace gaps on my browser.) Also, what makes and  reliable? I'm assuming you feel it meets WP:SPS.  Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 17:33, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Powerhouse Museum is a pretty high-profile Sydney museum with major exhibitions/tourism/archives etc. So I have no problem with that one. The other is a specialist native nursery and knowledgeable, but I might see if I can find a better ref. I'll see what I can do about the window. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:05, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Update: bah - mountainnursery ref unneeded - just about every ref on cultivation (incl. one at end of sentence) says they best with sun ++. Also his son's obituary indicates that Alfred Handel died in 1946. Will see if I can date the window. dated to 1932. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I've provided more details for the logo rationale and removed the white space. Melburnian (talk) 02:55, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There are issues with File:NSWWaratahsLogo.jpg's template—I hate the boilerplate FUR templates, so I'm not sure how to fix it, but to me the images and sourcing look satisfactory. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 19:32, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I moved all the information into a simpler template. Melburnian (talk) 03:26, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - No dab links but links to (fulltext) A new suprageneric classification of the Proteaceae, with an annotated checklist of genera and Growing waratahs is not working. Esuzu  ( talk  •  contribs ) 18:34, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I replaced the "Growing waratahs" reference. Melburnian (talk) 03:28, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed the non-functional first link. Melburnian (talk) 12:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Support&mdash;Overall a good work.
 * Comment&mdash;I do have a few concerns:
 * Is it "New South Wales Waratah" or "New South Wales waratah"? Please be consistent.
 * d'oh - should be small 'w' - fixed now Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:27, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The article appears to assume familiarity with certain jargon. Please wikilink the first use of alternate (Phyllotaxis), lignotuber, bract, whorl, floret, stigma, anther, anthesis, anther, ovary, nectary, Embothriinae, gondwana, understorey, eucalyptus, habitat fragmentation, outcrossing, Aboriginal, Horticulturalist, oblanceolate and tryptich. Also the term "fire interval" is not explained. I can guess, but some clarification may be helpful.
 * okay, linked all, will explain fire interval shortly just added (time between bushfires) there. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Is "moderately high rainfall" a standard climate rating? Is this indicating a range of mm/yr? Or perhaps a seasonal pattern in days/yr?
 * added rainfall of 1200 mm a year Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there supposed to be a single quote before: " 'Wirrimbirra White"?
 * yes. not sure hat happened there Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes? Then shouldn't it be Telopea ''Wirrimbirra White' ?
 * okay, now I'm confused - I had to magnify the screen as the quote marks blur into the capital W. It should be one quote on either end, like it is now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it looks like somebody must have fixed it since.
 * Thanks.&mdash;RJH (talk) 16:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Support Comment   A well written article, although as a Brit "March in autumn" made me double-take!. A couple of niggles
 * of course march is in autumn...everyone knows that! Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Federation is lower case in its own article, capped here
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * receiving on average around 1200 mm a year. conversion needed for the poor old yanks
 * Americans still do rainfall in inches?? done Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 *  Dappled shade from eucalyptus trees reduces sunlight to around 70% of full sun &mdash; reduced sunlight by 30% would be more succinct
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It is one of the slowest resprouting woody plant species in south-eastern Australia to produce seedlings after fire &mdash; It is one of the slowest woody plant species in south-eastern Australia to resprout after fire
 * Aha, this is tricky - resprouters are ones which generally resprout from the lignotuber (hence not talking about seedling), but in this case it is noted that the seedlings grow pretty darn slowly - defferent to below which is talking about resprouting of parent plants. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I've attempted a reword and consolidation, avoiding the confusing "resprouting". As I understand it, the fire burns the plant, it grows new shoots from its lignotuber, eventually produces new flowers, these produce seeds which fall to the ground, seedlings appear. This takes about two years which is pretty slow in these parts. Melburnian (talk) 07:57, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, I have incorporated "resprouter" in the rewording to be more accurate. I have linked the word in anticipation of making a stub to explain it. Melburnian (talk) 10:24, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * but are later overtaken by the slower-growing banksias and wattles. seems to contradict above
 *  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * My issues resolved, changed to support above  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:45, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Ucucha.
 * You should be consistent in capitalizing (Pygmy Possum) or not capitalizing (waratah) common names.
 * I have decapped pygmy possum now - however I can't do it with bird species which are capitalised by convention. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:59, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:BIRD appears to disagree there; you can use sentence case for consistency within an article. Ucucha 21:01, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * wow I did not now that...okay I agree it looks less jarring now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


 * speciosissima is a superlative, so the name means "very beautiful"; don't the sources say that? Also, I'm more familiar with speciosus meaning "many-formed".
 * fixed to source. I went and checked my Cassell's Latin Dictionary, which I have just found again unpacking, and it gives 'beautiful/handsome' as translations for speciosus - not sure where you get many-formed from (?) Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Not sure either. I am familiar with "speciose" meaning "species-rich" ("a speciose genus"), but even the OED doesn't list that word. Thanks for the addition. Ucucha 01:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Aha, that is a different derivation speciose is derived from species, -ei 5th declension noun in Latin, speciosus derives from the verb specio "to see or catch sight of'' Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


 * There are indigenous names both under "Taxonomy" and under "Symbolic and artistic references"
 * fixed so indigenous names all together now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * File:Australia Sydney AlfredHandel WaratahWindow.JPG—1946 is not 70 years ago, so the tag doesn't work.
 * crap. my bad, I thought it was the date of the artwork (which is over 75 years). Okay, will look at a fair use rationale or an older image. We do have a few waratah motifs to choose from. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It might still be PD, the tag just doesn't work. I'm not familiar with Aus copyright, but I recall that old stuff enters PD fairly easily. Ucucha 01:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I amended the licence tag at Commons. Melburnian (talk) 01:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Looking good. Ucucha 02:08, 14 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the case for use of the non-free File:NSWWaratahsLogo.jpg is dubious; it doesn't really advance our understanding of the topic when we see that image.
 * Needs some 2c editing (little things like periods after initials of authors). Also, are those the highest-quality reliable sources?
 * Re sources, as far as I know, yes. both books contain ample discussion from botanists and researchers such as Peter Weston and Cathy Offord as well, and complement official Flora of Australia treatments well. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I was referring rather to the websites. I think I'll do a more detailed review of those later, to see whether there are any real issues. Ucucha 01:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding the references, I found a few accessdates to reformat to conform, but can't see any stray periods (or lack thereof) remaining..? Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Ucucha 18:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ref. 2 needs the url
 * added --Melburnian (talk) 04:13, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Ucucha 01:24, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Both links to Plant Breeders' Rights at IP Australia are dead.
 * What makes http://www.proteaflora.com.au/plant-search/other a reliable source?


 * Support. The article has my support, the only significant issue I had with the article was the lack of a distribution map as per standard of every Australian plant FA that has since rectified. Gnangarra 14:16, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments by Sasata (talk) 15:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * lead: how about linking endemic, subspecies
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "Some flowerheads may be more globular" globular -> spherical?
 * The works use globular - and knowing the plant well I can guarantee they aren't spherical! My take on it is that idea conveyed by 'globular' is something that is more rounded but not necessarily a sphere as such, hence I felt globular indeed was a better fit Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:22, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough; I mistakenly assumed globular was equivalent to globose. Sasata (talk) 16:36, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Description: how about linking sessile, gynophore
 * done --Melburnian (talk) 03:35, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Taxonomy
 * any possibility of a link to the protologue?
 * I'll see what I can do - if not a link then a quote parameter in the citation Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It is on wikisource here, but I am not sure how to link to it. maybe best as an infobox at the bottom? Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I did not notice the wikisource template at the bottom. That should suffice, I think. Sasata (talk) 16:36, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * link specific epithet, Waterfall, West Head, common name
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Do we know what the names waratah, Mooloone and Mewah mean in their native languages? And why is only the first of these capitalized?
 * sloppiness. fixed. Original meanings other than that for waratah not given. Not surprising as these languages are mostly extinct (first area colonised by europeans etc. and local population heavily assimilated and decimated etc.) Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Ecology
 * link banksia, wattles
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Caption: "Fully mature flowerhead with all florets opened, Royal National Park. At this time the flowerhead attracts many animals." how about "Fully mature flowerheads with opened florets attract many animals, like this specimen from the Royal National Park."
 * better. done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "However, a field study conducted at Barren Grounds showed New Holland Honeyeaters to be carrying relatively little pollen." to be carrying -> to carry
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The taxonomy section already told us that Cathy Offord was at the Royal Botanic Gardens at Mount Annan
 * removed Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Cultivation: link Springwell
 * I suspect that Springwell is actually the name of some estate or gardens/house rather than the village (which is near Newcastle in the north of England), so I didn't link. Would be worth looking into. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "…awarded it an Award of Merit in 1914, and a First Class Certificate in 1922." Maybe add a few words to explain the significance of these awards
 * "Following on from the Parrys were Howard Gay and Arch Dennis, who pioneered growing waratahs at Monbulk in the Dandenong Ranges in the 1940s, Sid Cadwell and Frank Stone." The last two names kind of sit awkwardly at the end of that sentence. Maybe add a connector ("as well as"?) or a few words to describe what they did.
 * added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:04, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * link prevailing winds
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "The most common pathogen is Phytophthora cinnamon," ->"is the soil-borne water mold …"
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * link dieback, damping off, root rot
 * "The larvae of the Macadamia leafminer (Acocercops chionosema), amoth burrow along" amoth?
 * a moth Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "Telopea 'Cardinal' is a form found on the property of Lucille Pope in Werombi." Does anyone who grows a cultivar in their back yard warrant a mention in this article?
 * It was initially found there but from then it was commercially propagated, licenced and marketed. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * several metric measurements in the cultivars list aren't given conversions
 * done --Melburnian (talk) 13:38, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "The cultivar is thought to be tetraploid." link for tetraploid or ploidy
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "Telopea 'Parry's Dream' was a chance seedling in the early 1970s." What's a chance seedling?
 * essientally a funny-looking plant which comes up in someone's garden or nursery with good horticultural properties, the owner says "Gee, what a nice flower" and propagates away....I thought it was a succinct way of saying this and have seen the term used often in horticulture. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "chance seedling" now linked --Melburnian (talk) 13:48, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "Selected in 1981, it has red flowerheads…" Does this mean "selected for breeding"?
 * yes. I clarifiied that in the first instance, do you want me to do it for all? Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, I just missed the first clarification. Sasata (talk)


 * "…which grew on water catchment property." do not know what this is
 * Much of Sydney's water supply comes from a large area of bushland to which there is no public access - unless one gets special permission - as it drains into our biggest dam, Warragamba Dam. Will look what I can link it to. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * update - there is nothing specific on wiki, but here is a map. Sydney Catchment Authority needs to be buffed but at least it mentions it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "…and vulnerable to borers." what's a borer?
 * Woodboring beetle Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:49, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * link temperate, subtropical
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Nice article. Want to mention that the state avenues end in a state-flower park in the national capital, and so there is Telopea Park in Canberra, in the coverage of all things state-flower-related? Iridia (talk) 00:50, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, tempted, but the genus article could do with more expanding so that may be the best destination really...Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:37, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Goodness knows Griffin probably wasn't going to the species-level; there's also Manuka to illustrate his level of accuracy... Though I suppose it does raise the point: shouldn't at least half of that last section then be duplicated up into the genus article? Iridia (talk) 02:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point. I restricted it to cultural references which clearly relate to the species and the species alone (as recognised often by its iconic flowerhead). There is another bunch of material which can go in the genus page FWIW. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.