Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Big Lebowski/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 04:18, 5 September 2008.

The Big Lebowski

 * Nominator(s): J.D. (talk)

I'm nominating this article for featured article because it has achieved GA status and has had enough work done it to and is a significant enough film to merit FA status. I've tried to cover all important aspects of this film and include its emerging cult film status as well as importance in pop culture. J.D. (talk) 14:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Images
 * Image:Biglebowskiposter.jpg - I would just make sure the FUR is clear that it is for identification of the film via its movie poster, but all other aspects appear ok.
 * Image:The.Big.Lebowski.1998.Screenshot.1.jpg - Image is not low resolution, can probably be reduced by half. FUR does not indicate why it is being used on the article page; and I believe this to be duplicating what Image:The.Big.Lebowski.1998.Screenshot.2.jpg shows (basically, it's a shot of the Dude, not much more there, so it can be replaced).  Suggestion: find a critical/well-known scene in the movie that the article talks about that shows more than just one actor (a unique set, a unique tableau of actors, something like that) and use that instead.
 * Image:The.Big.Lebowski.1998.Screenshot.2.jpg - Same issue on resolution as well as lack of reason for its use. However, that can be justified here (it's showing the three primary characters of the film).  Make sure to add this.
 * Image:Biglebowskisoundtrackalbum.jpg - I'm not sure if this image is needed (the rationale is otherwise fine). As the artwork mirrors the poster, there's nothing new there, but on the other hand, it is offsetting a separate article for the soundtrack itself.  I've not seen anything consistent on how a built-in soundtrack album is dealt with in an article, so my inclination is to say leave it, though others may challenge this.
 * Image:Lebowski10thdvd.jpg - Same general issue with the cover art, it could go either way, I'd be inclined to keep it. FUR is good. --M ASEM  15:44, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. I made the FUR clear for the movie poster image. I removed Screenshot.1 for the reasons you stated above and kept Screenshot.2 and justified the reasons for its existence. I'll keep the last two images but if someone has a problem with the Soundtrack album art I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of it.--J.D. (talk) 17:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Barring any other further input on the soundtrack/dvd covers, the images in this now appear to be fine, all issues resolved. --M ASEM 17:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments The article needs a pretty intense copy edit. I already did some work to the lead. Since I love the movie, I'll try to help go over the rest of the article a bit later. I recommend reading through it several times and trying to remove any ambiguities or strangely formed sentences. I also saw some contractions, and I don't believe they belong in WP articles (unless they are part of a quote).
 * I also think we need to discuss who is mentioned in the lead. I added John Turturro, he was billed fifth so he definitely belong there.  You should probably mention that the story is narrated by "The Stranger" (Sam Elliott) in the lead.  I think Tara Reid has the least justification for being in the lead, since she's more of an off-screen object (and only has about three lines).--Elred (talk) 20:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed Tara Reid's name for the reason you mentioned above. Replacing her with Turturro makes sense.--J.D. (talk) 13:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * You have a dead ref in red letters, current ref 52. Ref named Russell?
 * Current ref 38 (Stephen Thomas Erlewine) has its publisher in the link title, it should be listed separately. Also, list the author of this as last name first to fit witht he rest of the references
 * Your last entry in the Bibliography is just a bare link. If its used as a source in the article, it needs publisher and last access date at the very least. If its not used as a source, it needs to go in the External Links section.
 * Otherwise sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for these suggestions. I have implemented all of those changes.--J.D. (talk) 13:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed your strike throughs, generally at FAC the person who makes the comment/concern strikes through when they feel the issues is resolved. I changed them to little "dones" after the statement so you can keep track of what you've done. Will check them in a moment. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments - This is my first-ever review of a movie FAC, so bear with me.
 * "The Dude." Check for logical punctuation here.
 * Fixed.--J.D. (talk) 20:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Elred that this needs a good copy-edit.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 19:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "After being mistaken for a multimillionaire of the same name, Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski..." His full name doesn't need repeating; just say Lebowski.
 * Million dollar needs a hyphen.
 * "Stranger," Watch the punctuation again.
 * Remove comma after "and has been called".
 * "The film's devoted fans have even spawned." Less is sometimes more.
 * Plot: Comma after "nymphomaniacal trophy wife".
 * I have made the changes you suggest above.--J.D. (talk) 20:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Opposing because the prose is very poor. Here is but one example of many throughout the article:
 * While Bunny took an unannounced trip, the nihilists (her friends) alleged a kidnapping in order to get money from her husband (It is left unclear whether and to what extent Bunny was an active collaborator in this scheme). The Dude and Walter arrive at the Big Lebowski residence, finding Bunny back at home, having returned from her trip.

Graham Colm Talk 13:11, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've started fixing up and pruning the prose in the Plot section.--J.D. (talk) 20:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Oppose from Maralia I'm sorry, but this needs significant work. Some examples:
 * "novel The Big Sleep." - Use italics on book titles.
 * Fixed.--J.D. (talk) 20:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nonbreaking spaces needed between numerals and units of measure (i.e. in $17 million).
 * Settle on 'The Dude' or 'the Dude' or 'Dude'.
 * No contractions please (they're).
 * Fixed.--J.D. (talk) 20:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The band name Autobahn should not be in quotation marks or in italics.
 * Fixed.--J.D. (talk) 20:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The actor names and role names in the Cast section should not in bold type.
 * Per "definition lists" at WP:MOSBOLD, WikiProject Films/Style guidelines. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 04:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Awkward prose:
 * Attack of the prepositional phrases: The film begins with a short voiceover introduction by an unnamed narrator played by Sam Elliott to the character Jeffrey Lebowski as he is buying milk from a grocery store in 1991.
 * Verb disagreement: Days later, the Big Lebowski contacts the Dude, revealing that Bunny has been kidnapped and asks him to act as a courier for the million-dollar ransom, the Dude being in the unique position of being able to identify the rug-soiling thugs, the suspected kidnappers.
 * Misplaced modifier: Upon returning home without any clue about the whereabouts of the ransom money, Jackie Treehorn's thugs return to bring the Dude to Treehorn's beach house in Malibu, where Treehorn inquires about the whereabouts of Bunny.


 * Errors in punctuation with quotation marks:
 * who calls himself "The Dude."
 * a cowboy known only as "Stranger,"
 * the other Jeffrey Lebowski, the Millionaire."
 * he "isn't trying to scam anyone."
 * Fixed.--J.D. (talk) 20:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Reference formatting:
 * The abbreviation 'pp.' is used when referring to multiple pages; use 'p.' for a single page.
 * Use endashes, not hyphens, in page ranges.

Many of these issues could be fixed at FAC, but the prose needs intensive work. Maralia (talk) 03:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.