Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Kingdom of this World/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 11:53, 16 May 2010.

The Kingdom of this World

 * Nominator(s): Svetlana 365, User:Avneet86, User:Patrussell, Chris Weber (talk) 22:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel it meets the FA criteria. Such an important work in Latin American literature deserves to be introduced to a wider audience. Chris Weber (talk) 22:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I see this was only passed GA today. Was User:Svetlana 365 consulted about the nomination?  Has User:Jbmurray reviewed the article?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:03, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Svetlana 365 was indeed consulted. We worked on this article as a four-person group, and all members were consulted before nominating. I would expect Jbmurray has already reviewed the article considering we did this as a project for a university course whose grades are due in this weekend, but I cannot confirm if he has.--Chris Weber (talk) 00:22, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Should all four be listed as co-noms? Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:25, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That would make sense. How exactly do we do that? --Chris Weber (talk) 01:16, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * By listing them above. I just did it for you. Ucucha 01:22, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --Chris Weber (talk) 01:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment—no dab links or dead external links. Ucucha 23:12, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Inconsistency: generally, the article uses "Ti Noel", but occasionally,  Ti Noël -- make consistent.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

No valid FU rationale for File:The_Kingdom_of_this_World_Eng_1st_Ed.jpg Fasach Nua (talk) 11:23, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I added an extra bit of information that should make the reason for use explicit: "Significant edition cover that illustrates subject of article. Used for purposes of illustration in an educational article about the entity represented by the image. The image is used as the primary means of visual identification of this article topic." Is that enough? It seems to be OK for other FA articles. --Chris Weber (talk) 19:05, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources: All sources look OK, no issues here. Brianboulton (talk) 22:01, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Oppose I have not finished reading the article, but based on the current state of the prose and organization, I have to oppose. Once the major problem with the "Theatre" section is fixed, I will finish reading the article.


 * Once in Cuba, Carpentier joined a group of young writers whose goal was to establish a literature faithful to the New World, by recovering origins, history, and tradition. - Unclear - "origins, history, and tradition" is too vague


 * In 1943, he travelled to Haiti,[4] where he was made aware of Dominique Hyppolyte's play, Le Torrent, about the Haitian Revolution, which features a character named Ti Noel. - How was he made aware?


 * As The Kingdom of This World coincides with Carpentier's return to Cuba, it is very much influenced by the author's re-encounter with himself and his origins - What does "re-encounter with himself" mean?


 * This revolution was a turning point in global history because it was unthinkable and therefore challenged the prejudices of its time. - Doesn't quite make sense, as the people who revolted thought it and did it!


 * The Haitian revolution differed from the American revolution however, as it involved the formation of a new national identity. - This seems wrong - the American revolution prompted the invention of an American identity as well.


 * All names of literary works should be linked - redlinked, if the articles don't yet exist.


 * The second paragraph of "Setting" seems to be more about "Genre" - is there a better place for it?


 * Jean Price Mars's Ainsi parla l'oncle (So Spoke the Uncle) presents two arguments that Carpentier applied to his historical approach: firstly, from the perspective of a Haitian peasant, the Revolution did nothing more than replace leaders, since the exploitation continued; secondly, Price Mars assumes the authenticity of the belief in African gods, in contrast with a shallow Catholicism. - This sentence doesn't make sense.


 * William Seabrook's The Magic Island made connections between religion and history and was considered a beautiful book by Carpentier - What kinds of connections influenced Carpentier?


 * Cervantes' influence on Carpentier is unclear. Perhaps move the last sentence in the paragraph to the beginning and start there?


 * In order to achieve such an analysis, Carpentier makes use of spectatorship: his characters perceive a spectacle in alterable ways which parallel their alterable ways of experiencing the world. - This sentence doesn't make sense - average readers aren't going to understand the layers of meaning that scholars attribute to the word "spectatorship" - this must all be explained much better.


 * Spectacle situations are also sometimes used by Carpentier as a tool for the characters to reframe and rethink the world,[15] as well as to establish individual and group identity. - It is not clear what "spectacle situations" are.


 * As a second example, the scene that Ti Noel constructs around himself after the sacking of the Sans-Souci Palace presents the reader with a dramatic rehearsal in which Ti Noel represents culturally mobile subjectivity by performing different identities on his own. - This is not going to be clear to a general reader.


 * The "Theatre" section follows the language of its sources closely in a way that makes it difficult for a lay reader to understand the concepts being presented (they will not know about spectator theory). You need to distill the article down into its essence and present that to the reader - that will be quite difficult as it is a very hard article to understand. Repeating the words and phrases in the article will not make the ideas clear to a general readers.

Once the "Theatre" section (which should relabeled "Performance") has been rewritten, I would be glad to continue my review, but that will take a substantial bit of work. I'll wait to finish the review until that is done. I'll check back here on Sunday. If you want me to check back before then, please email me. Awadewit (talk) 02:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Not yet. The Haitian revolution differed from the American revolution however, as it involved the formation of a new national identity I think I see what sort of thing is intended here; but the present text implies that the American Revolution did not involve the formation of a new national identity - which is patently false. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:55, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * FAC has been up for more than two weeks, with no support. Please resolve remaining concerns with reviewers, and bring back in a few weeks.  (Where is Jbmurray?)  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 11:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.