Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 18:41, 27 January 2009.

The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II

 * Nominator(s): Gary King  ( talk ),  The Le ft  orium 

"Did you know that The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II is the sequel to The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth?" Gary King ( talk ) 01:55, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Images: Fuchs has taken a look at them below.
 * References: They're all standard video game references, as far as I can tell. Some of the less commonly used references, but which I still think are reliable, are used only for reviews.

Gary King ( talk ) 04:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: Gary King did most of the work. ;)  The Le ft orium  10:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey I helped too! LOTRrules  Talk   Contribs  22:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * a couple of the links to EA give 'connection time out' when reviewed with the external link check tool. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 04:23, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * They still work when you try them, though, so I don't see what the problem is? Gary King  ( talk ) 04:34, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments—The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II is the sequel to The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth? Really? -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 02:34, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Images
 * Images look pretty good: low-res nonfree shots with good rationales. Could we get some sources for the images, though?
 * In the Elrond actor caption: "Hugo Weaving, who played Elrond in the Lord of the Rings film trilogy, reprised the role in BFME2, also acting as the lead voiceover." wouldn't "lead voice actor" make more sense?
 * Initial random cmts
 * "Similar to The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth, the game requires that the player build a base with structures to produce units, gather resources, research upgrades, and provide defenses." is a pretty weak opening. Start from the top: what kind of game is it, then its goal.
 * The paragraph about effects in development ("The game's water effects...") sounds rather clunky, possibly due to repetition of "water" a bajillion times.
 * Does the plot have a set outcome (i.e., one campaign comes before the other) or are they just alternate events with no story connection between them?
 * Wouldn't it flesh out the development section if content from "The Making of The Battle for Middle-earth II" were included?


 * Done. What sources? Their Source fields are already filled. "Voiceover" is what the reference refers to him as. The Plot is linear, as opposed to the predecessor. Unfortunately, I don't have The Making of. Gary King  ( talk ) 03:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I mean a source URL or similar. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 12:28, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I'll leave it as is for now and go searching. I didn't originally upload either one. Gary King  ( talk ) 15:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments -
 * You've mixed using the Template:Citation with the templates that start with Cite such as Template:Cite journal or Template:Cite news. They shouldn't be mixed per WP:CITE.
 * What makes http://www.gamezone.com/ a reliable source?
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 19:54, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I cannot find where the article uses the citation template. GameZone is reliable per this. Gary King  ( talk ) 20:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's probably called in one of these templates: Template:ME-ref/FOTR Template:ME-ref/ROTK and Template:ME-ref/TH. (mutters) Struck. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Oppose, 1a. This is very good. However, my main beef is the persistent passive voice that either obscures or eliminates the subject of the sentence (ex. "liberties were taken" without telling us who took them). It needs a run-through with an eye toward switching to active voice and identifying a subject where prudent.
 * "... containing bonus material and a documentary featuring the game's development." Maybe "about the game's development"? The word "featuring" doesn't seem right here.
 * 4th or fourth? Check MoS please.
 * -- Laser brain  (talk)  02:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It should be better now. Gary King  ( talk ) 05:11, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I am still finding a lot of passive voice (the section about digital water has 3 or 4 instances just in one paragraph) and other grammar problems. More work is needed to get this ready. -- Laser brain  (talk)  16:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, well, those I made passive because I didn't want to start every sentence with "The developers added", "The developers included", etc. Unless, that's what you want...? Gary King  ( talk ) 16:46, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, we don't need to do that. However, there are other ways of writing in the active voice without beginning sentences the same way. Passive voice is not a preferred writing style. -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * How's the water paragraph now? Gary King  ( talk ) 19:00, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The way you've done it is much too forced. For example, rather than "They made the digital water simulate deep ocean water" why can't you just say, "The digital water simulates deep ocean water"? Still active voice, not forced. See what I mean? The whole article needs such treatment. -- Laser brain   (talk)  04:40, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Support Comments  from
 * "The game's water effects got substantial upgrades" Is there a stronger verb than "got"?
 * "To make a rich visual experience, lost towns, corals, and fish were added underwater." One of those passive voice things that Laser Brain was talking about. I'm not sure I can provide a satisfactory suggestion without changing the meaning. Maybe: "Underwater lost towns, corals, and fish enriched the visual experience."?
 * "Richard Taylor had the responsibilities of designing"-->Richard Taylor was responsible for designing
 * "Taylor found it very essential " Not sure "found" is the right word here, maybe "considered"?
 * "especially the heroes, who" I think it should be "whom" here.
 * "The results also pleased 1UP.com" And two sentences later, "The integration of The Lord of the Rings into a video game pleased Game Informer"
 * "reviews brought up several issues with the game" Reviews or reviewers?
 * ""in no way is it anywhere near the game we hoped for. What a waste."" "What a waste" is seems unnecessary, especially considering that this quote is introduced with "concluding that". Dabomb87 (talk) 23:51, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All done Gary King  ( talk ) 04:53, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

It's pretty close now. I will take a look at the Gameplay section later. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:47, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "After playing the game, PC Gamer found it difficult to find much fault with it," Why not "After playing the game, PC Gamer found little fault with it," or something like that?
 * "GameZone was happy with the gameplay of BFME2, despite a few minor issues, " I think the order of these clauses should be switched around.
 * Inconsistency: "The graphics were appreciated by ActionTrip, which" but "The results also pleased 1UP.com, who"
 * "Tom Bombadil, a merry hermit from The Lord of the Rings, is given a combat role in the game" Unnecessary passive voice, maybe: "Tom Bombadil, a merry hermit from The Lord of the Rings, assumes a combat role in the game" or something similar.
 * "newly-introduced" No hyphens after -ly adverbs.
 * "Instead of the world-map overview in the previous game, the player goes through nine fixed missions in either easy, medium, or hard difficulty mode." I don't know if this sentence belongs in the Plot section.
 * "The heroes are informed after their victory that the Goblins"-->After their victory, the heroes are that the Goblins
 * "and completely destroy all remaining Good forces"-->and completely destroy the remaining Good forces
 * Done Gary King  ( talk ) 17:32, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I will support after the resolution of these comments. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:19, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That which/who inconsistency within critics was only an example, here is another one: "The game's multiplayer portion disappointed GameSpy, who found"
 * "there are a total of six playable factions" I am pretty sure that "a total of" is redundant, unless you are trying to emphasize that particular fact.
 * "the Ents, can perform a combination of melee" Link melee here and remove the link from the "Trolls form the core of the Mordor forces, having strong melee attacks..." sentence
 * "With his army, Sauron moves forward with his plan to destroy all the remaining Good forces in the North." Dabomb87 (talk) 23:19, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All done (I think). — The Le ft orium  23:30, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

More comments
 * I performed a copyedit, removing some passive voice and some extremely repetitious repetition of "EA = publisher" prevalent throughout. I also left some inline comments where I felt more introduction could be given; the plot is rather confusing to someone who has never read the books, as new places and people are thrown into the text without any indication of who they are. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 03:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the copyedit. I've resolved the comments, too. Thoughts on it now? Gary King  ( talk ) 04:53, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it is ready now. -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - I can't find anything to oppose on, I guess. :P -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 01:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Support prose is succinct and crisp, and I can't see any comprehensiveness issues. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:15, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - I read through the first two sections (tried to anyway; video games are boring :P ) and I found nothing of concern. I'm in the WikiCup with Gary and Theleftorium, as a disclaimer. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  04:40, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.