Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Monster (novella)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 01:52, 24 January 2012.

The Monster (novella)

 * Nominator(s): María ( yllo submarine ) 15:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The Monster is a 1898 novella by Stephen Crane. Although it hasn't received nearly as much critical attention as The Red Badge of Courage or "The Open Boat" (both FAs), it's still a damn fine story by one of America's greatest authors. It's a tale of small-town small-mindedness and monstrous deformity, pathos and intolerance. Perhaps most notably, the story has had a resurgence in African American lit, in part due to the theory that Crane based the story on a brutal lynching that occurred in New York in 1892, which one of his brothers witnessed. The article was promoted to GA in December, during which it received a review from Truthkeeper. It was then Peer Reviewed with an in depth review by Yomangani. I now think it's ready for its star. Thanks! María ( yllo submarine ) 15:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Sources but no spotchecks
 * Add the ISBN for The Monster and Other Stories?
 * The edition I used (available at Google Books) was published in 1899, so there's no ISBN. María ( yllo submarine ) 02:10, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I didn't check the convenience link. My bad.  Auree    ★  02:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Check for consistency in the last, first format for authors ("Wertheim, Stanley and Paul Sorrentino").
 * Names are consistent per MLA ("first-author surname, firstname and second-author firstname surname"). Granted, I use a sort of mix between MLA and Chicago -- mainly so the publication year is more prominently placed -- but the names at least are per MLA. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 02:10, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough; guess it's up to personal choice, then :)  Auree    ★  02:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Rest looks all right.  Auree    ★  01:36, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Support Comment on brilliance. What else is there to say? This is a professionally written and engaging entry on an interesting novella, just about ready for its shining star :P It was a pleasure reading and reviewing it, María.  Auree    ★  17:16, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * At first glance, this seems to be a promising candidate. Prose looks good; I'll be adding comments below later as I read through.
 * Be consistent in whether the article implements the serial comma or not.
 * Fixed, I think. I decided not to use the serial comma, so if you see any lurking about, feel free to remove. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "becomes horribly disfigured after he saves his employer's son from a fire" – Change "his employer's son" to "Trescott's son"?
 * Changed. María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * How do you feel about mentioning that Whilomville appears in multiple of Crane's stories in the second paragraph? This: "The Monster differs from the other Whilomville stories" seems to assume we already know it does.
 * Good suggestion, since this is mentioned later in the article; added this to the previous paragraph: "The fictional town of Whilomville, which is used in fourteen other Crane stories, was based on Port Jervis, New York, where Crane lived with his family for a few years during his youth."
 * "recuperating for a week" seems a bit odd to me. Not sure how to fix it, though, as saying "after a week" or "a week later" would be repetitive.
 * How about "after a week of recuperation"? María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Concerning "William Howe Crane", is the similar surname a coincidence, or were they family? Oops, I misread that part.
 * Replace "refuse-collector" by the more common term, waste collector?
 * Sure, changed. María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "whose face was destroyed by cancer" – Is "destroyed" the best choice of words here?
 * I got tired of writing "disfigured", heh. Changed to "damaged" for now -- better? María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "Modern critics have connected the novella's themes of racial division to a violent historic episode in Port Jervis' history." – Tighten by removing "historic"?
 * Definitely, removed. María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Should "The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky" be in italics or not?
 * Aha, good eye. "Bride" is a short story, so it's in quotes, unlike The Monster, which is a novella.  Several sources put the latter in quotes as you would a short story, but "Bride" is correct. María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "It remained unpublished for nearly a year." – Ambiguous "It"; does it refer to McClure's or "The Bridge Comes to Yellow Sky"?
 * Fixed. María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "Plot" section is excellent.
 * Thanks! :) María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "Edwin H. Cady believed The Monster is the best indication of the writer Crane may have become had he lived" – Maybe "had he lived longer"?
 * Sure, changed. María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "suffer metaphorical loss of face in their having been cast out by society." – Is there any way to tighten "in their having been"?
 * I'm too wordy for my own good. Simplified to: "suffer metaphorical loss of face when they are cast out by society". María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "mark them as monstrous as the man they shun for his deformity; as" – Nit-picky, but a bit of repetition; can the final "as" be avoided?
 * Hmm, I'm going to have to think about this one. I keep staring at it and nothing is coming to me. María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed by Yomangani here, thank goodness. This one made my head hurt. María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:23, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "As William M. Morgan wrote, although the white characters are largely depicted as cold and humorless, whereas the black characters are seen to be warm and amusing, the town's racial hierarchy is omnipresent." – Could this be reworded so it flows a bit better?  Auree    ★  03:14, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed to: "As William M. Morgan wrote, while the white characters are largely depicted as cold and humorless, and the black characters as warm and amusing, the town's racial hierarchy is omnipresent." María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Overall very little to nitpick about so far. Ready to support after these are addressed and I look it through once again, provided no glaring issues pop up later on. I've made some light edits to style and prose, please check them here and here.  Auree    ★  02:16, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for your review and helpful suggestions! María ( yllo submarine ) 13:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Everything looks great now, thanks! Switching to support.  Auree    ★  17:16, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help and support. :) María ( yllo submarine ) 13:23, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, one thing I overlooked: "Despite being branded a "monster" by the town's residents, Trescott vows to shelter and care for Henry, resulting in his family's exclusion from the community" implies that Trescott was branded a monster, not Henry. Sorry for noticing so late!  Auree    ★  02:29, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No need to apologize, that's a great catch! Changed to: "When Henry is branded a "monster" by the town's residents, Trescott vows to shelter and care for him, resulting in his family's exclusion from the community."  Thanks again. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 13:19, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Images are unproblematic, captions are fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

 Comments . The prose is excellent, and I could find only a few nitpicks. However, after looking through sources at Jstor, I'm not sure the article meets the comprehensive or well-researched criteria. Could you look at the list of missing sources below and justify why they were not used? (I can send the PDF of any of these articles if you don't have jstor access ) Sasata (talk) 17:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. I'm happy with the additions, and think this engaging article meets the FA criteria. Sasata (talk) 06:20, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * suggest linking novella in the lead
 * Done. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I was under the impression that "African American" needed a hyphen when it was used as an adjective ("An African-American coachman")
 * Done. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * link Harper (publisher)
 * Done. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * "which added a further four stories," is "additional" a more appropriate word here than "further"
 * Sure, changed. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * "Crane began writing The Monster in June 1897 while living in Oxted, England" according to Nagel (1999) (, he wrote it in Ireland
 * Nagel is half correct, as the article states: Crane began writing the novella in England, and finished it while on vacation in Ireland. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * possible links: morality, irony, compassion, tolerance, ethical dilemma, race, trope, stereotype, race relations
 * Linked several, but I think compassion, tolerance, stereotype and race relations are all rather common terms. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * supererogative? I admit I don't know what this fancy word means ... but it's in a quote, so maybe there's not much to do expect hope the average reader knows :)
 * Yeah, that's a word directly from the source, but I linked to supererogation just in case it trips up others. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The Frankenstein caption should have a period.
 * Done. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * "more important... it is" MoS says that ellipses should be spaced on both sides
 * Done. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * location should consistently given states or not (e.g. Westport, CT vs. Urbana)
 * Done. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * several of the sources are available on JSTOR, how about including jstor links?
 * Hm, I'm not a big fan of including links to JSTOR, since not everyone has access. Is this required now? María ( yllo  submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope, just a convenience for some users; plus, it gives a useful first-page preview. Sasata (talk) 18:50, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point, especially re: the preview. I've added JSTOR links where relevant.  Thanks! María ( yllo  submarine ) 03:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * There are several sources that have not been used (found these using search terms "Crane" & "The Monster"). In addition to the ones listed below, which discuss the novella prominently, there are several other articles that discuss Crane's work more generally with passing references to the story; I haven't listed these.

Thanks for the great suggestions, Sasata! As you've already noted, I've already used some sources that are available via JSTOR; I also have access to other online research databases such as MLA and Muse. I believe the article is comprehensive in that it "neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context", as well as well-researched because it provides "a thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature" -- I don't take these FA requirements to mean that every available source needs to be used, especially if it happens to repeat what is already in the article.
 * Replies to Sasata about JSTOR

I've come across most of the ones you've listed, but I may have chose to not use them for a variety of reasons. One source in particular duplicates information already noted in the article, or simply expands upon what is already noted (: "Stephen Crane's Elephant Man"). Several are too general, or may not mention The Monster beyond general terms (or even at all?) (: "Stephen Crane at Asbury Park" and : "Stephen Crane: An Estimate"). Nagel and Gullason are relatively good sources, and I know I've used his work in other Crane articles. I can definitely work them in, if you think it pertinent, as well as several others that are new to me (Punday and Evans). I'll comment here once I've done some more research, hopefully later today. María ( yllo submarine ) 18:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Literary criticism is not my thing, so in trying to assess 1b+c, all I can do is a lit search and ask why those sources weren't used. I'll leave all decisions up to you as to whether they're worthy of inclusion or not. Sasata (talk) 18:50, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've made some additions per your suggested sources. Nothing too major, but some nice supplements; I've been meaning to add the link to Ibsen's play for a while, so Nagel's article was a nice reminder.  A note on the narrator is also great, and an overall summation of Crane's "race problem" from Clemen helps a great deal.  Thanks!  Let me know what you think. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 03:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The additions look great, thanks. I'm adding my support. Sasata (talk) 06:20, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help and support! María ( yllo  submarine ) 19:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Support - very nicely done and meets all the FA criteria. I have a few quibbles, which do not detract from my support.
 * Link coachman? Not a common profession / job anymore
 * Good point, linked. María ( yllo submarine ) 19:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Could the year they left Port Jervis / relocated be added here? After he and his mother relocated to Asbury Park, New Jersey [in YEAR], Crane frequently visited the city until 1896, often staying with his older brother and Port Jervis resident William Howe Crane.[5] or could it be recast as something like Although Crane and his mother relocated to Asbury Park, New Jersey in YEAR, until 1896 he frequently [visited and] stayed with William Howe Crane, his older brother and a Port Jervis resident.[5] (not sure if the "visited and" part is needed)
 * Great suggestion, thanks; changed per your wording and added the year (1880). María ( yllo submarine ) 19:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for an interesting read, image review follows Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 14:38, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much, Ruhrfisch! Glad you enjoyed the article. :) María ( yllo  submarine ) 19:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Image review The article's images are all free. The lead photo is of a book which is out of copyright becasue of its age. The other two images are PD because of age. I note that an image of Crane himself could perhaps be added to the Themes section. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 14:38, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The added image of Crane is also free. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 00:37, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Support with only two tiny nitpicks. I did the GA review and thought it was well-done and it's improved quite a bit since then:
 * MOS:NUM > be sure numbers above 11 are written out, or check to be certain that's still policy. I've seen a few instances of "fourteen"
 * Doh, numbers always trip me up. I think I've fixed these now... María ( yllo  submarine ) 15:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Two successive sentence begin with "Although Crane ...." in the "Background and writing" section, second para.
 * Fixed. María ( yllo submarine ) 15:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

It's a nice read - well done! Truthkeeper (talk) 22:18, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! :) María ( yllo submarine ) 15:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.