Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The World Ends with You/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 03:13, 22 July 2008.

The World Ends with You

 * Nominator(s): M ASEM 

Self-Nomination - The information for this article is pretty much complete from the work of editors involved; I've gone through myself and have had a separate copy-edit for the text to make sure that it is FA quality (given that there is the "Game" within the game that has be followed, I wanted to make sure that the distinction between the real-world DS game, and the fictional in-game Repears' Game, is clear and understood.) --M ASEM 14:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Could the fair use rationale for Image:Gameplay screen.PNG be fleshed out to be more specific as to what is going on in the screenshot and why it should be used in the article? Gary King ( talk ) 19:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've expanded these a bit, basically the image is to show the unique aspects of the battle system in the game. Please let me know if you were looking for more. --M ASEM  19:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * What makes http://www.siliconera.com/ a reliable source?
 * What makes http://kotaku.com/gaming/skies-of-blue/its-a-wonderful-world-ds-lite-265367.php reliable?
 * What makes http://www.joystiq.com/2008/06/03/the-world-ends-with-you-new-shipment-coming-mid-june/ reliable?
 * Otherwise sources look good, links all checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The Siliconera link is not necessary but is there to help with visual connection of the game's setting to the real thing. Both Kotaku and Joystiq are blog-type networks, however, it is necessary to look at the authors of these; in both cases, Brian Ashcroft and Ross Miller (respectively) are major contributors and long-time authors.  In the former case, this is basically an english version of a japanese page announcing the special DS lite - I can point to a web page at the import store Play-Asia which shows the same thing but that's not as good as a more summarized source.  For the Joystiq article about the shortage and reshipment, they are they are the most reliable of all sources reporting that, if not the one they all refer to.  Again, going by the author here, his articles would be appropriate sources.  However, if these explainations aren't sufficient, I can go ahead and remove those that are problems. --M ASEM  03:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think on these, I'll just leave them out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Is the VGChartz reference reliable? Cat&#39;s Tuxedo (talk) 12:36, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * VGChartz is not unreliable but not perfectly reliable either (they don't fully reveal how they get their #s, but their numbers are consistent when they can be compared to more reliable sources like NPD). However, they are the only other available source for sales numbers which do seem to agree with the one number from a reliable source listed there.  Some sales data is needed to be complete; I made that cavaet in the text by stating "According to VGChartz...", as to allow readers aware of the odd nature of VGChartz to be access the numbers in light of that. --M ASEM  13:18, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree strongly with the reliance on VG Chartz for sales information here. A caveat should be put against VG Chartz figures, and their accuracy and methodology should be more heavily criticised in the VG Chartz article.  Essentially, as the GameSetWatch article mentioned, VGChartz do not have significant retail information, and they trust NPD figures over their own.  Why are VGChartz figures being used for Japanese estimates, given that the Japanese tracking firms such as Enterbrain release their games sales data? - hahnch e n 12:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I found this link to a translation that comes from Famitsu/EnterBrain for 2007 japanm yearly says, so I can replace/augment that (however, it tracks with VGCs data appropriately). However, we're still at a loss with North American data; it didn't break the theoretical bound of a million units or a top 10 sale for the month, so NPD is not reporting #s.  (Given that the Famitsu and other data is basically only behind a translation wall, I would expect VGChartz to actually follow this accurately - its the NA and Europe numbers that remain in question). --M ASEM  14:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason it tracks with VGC appropriately is because VGC rip their figures off other firms without crediting them. But my main point was that there was more reliable data which could have been cited, and that has been addressed. - hahnch e n 20:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment I find the second image, the split-screen view, somewhat confusing. Am I correct in thinking that the upper screen shows the action from the "side" while the lower shows it from the "top"? If so, I would like to add that to the caption. Also, it seems that the readability could be improved by re-wording the "lower portion of the upper" text. Maury (talk) 13:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The whole "Setting" section is extremely confusing. Would anyone mind if I took a whack at fixing it? Maury (talk) 13:27, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Please go ahead and try to fix whatever you can. As for the screenshot - in the context of the game, as you and your partner battle, you're put into alternate spaces that physically separates neku and partern yet fight the same enemy (this is part of the story, too much detail to go into).  The "top" and "sides" would be misnomers, they're supposed to be the same area. From a development standpoint, the views are different as one is aestheticlly pleasing (top screen) and the other minimal and practical (bottom); I can see adding some language in the gameplay that explain Neku and partner fight in separate realities (I would need to quote the game for that)  as to make the explanation of why the views are different. --M ASEM  13:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've gone ahead and included this aspect (called "zones" in-game) in both the setting and gameplay sections as to make it easy to explain on the screenshot caption, but please go ahead and improve if needed. --M ASEM 14:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's excellent! Maury (talk) 17:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment The coverart should be cropped top and bottom and maybe scaled down to 250px to make it appearence a bit clearer. 14:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. --M ASEM 16:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment Could the development section be cleaned up a little bit? It seems to be slightly disjointed and somewhat messy. Also, is there a reason that the characters can't be summed up within a few paragraphs? It would be better to strengthen the article than have a useless split. TTN (talk) 16:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * On the characters, do you mean bringing in the "List of characters" content (much shortened), deleting that afterward? Also, for the development, can you be more specific?  The facts of development are grouped into paragraphs based on gameaply, setting, art, etc., so I'm sure what rearrangement you're looking to see. --M ASEM  17:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the section would work much better as a condensed version of the character list. I don't really know what I'm looking for with the development section. It really just isn't a pleasant read. I guess it's just that the section is one topic after another rather than a well flowing section. I really don't know what I mean, so you can probably just ignore that. TTN (talk) 17:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I userfied the character list that would be inserted into the character section per this advice at User:Masem/twewychar. I need to work on the language, but I would like to know if this is appropriate and what you meant for inclusion.  If so, this would be a drop in replacement for the character section (and deleting the list page).  --M ASEM  15:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That seems like it would be fine after being cleaned up and refined. You could potentially use Template:Anime voices to help with formatting. TTN (talk) 12:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've moved this section in with cleanup and used the anime voice template (which is nice, no red links necessary). --M ASEM  16:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Support I would have prefered that the article follows the same layout as literally all the other video game articles on Wikipedia (with the Gameplay section before Plot), but I think the article does meet the featured article criteria. Kariteh (talk) 17:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As a note, it was originally gameplay before plot before I took this to a GA, but it really made it difficult to explain the game and the Reaper's Game within the gameplay, and then making the plot section work out smoothly. Switching the order helped to smooth the flow of both sections and avoided repetition in the gameplay section. --M ASEM  01:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Masem on this one. Having this order is permittable as long as it's for a good reason, and I feel this follows a more logical order when reading it. Ashnard  Talk  Contribs  10:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree with Masem and Ashnard. A good case for IAR (though I hate citing it). —Giggy 10:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I agreed too, you know. Kariteh (talk) 11:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Reviewing only image licensing: looks good. --NE2 13:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Oppose—1a. The lead alone shows that there are persistent problems in sentence structure, plus other glitches. Please get someone new to run through it carefully.
 * "The game is set within the modern world of the Shibuya district as Neku Sakuraba, the main playable character, awakes to find himself"—Why is "within" better than "in"? "Awakes" is not a verb. The two ideas, linked by "as", don't seem to go in the one sentence: logic problem.
 * More hyphens would ease the reader's task: for example, "seven-day time limit". Please audit throughout for double adjectives that would normally be hyphenated: some you can get away with not hyphenating, especially in AmEng, but some you can't. Use common sense.
 * "Neku ... him ... himself".
 * Why "utilize" rather than "use"? So ugly. There are other instances, too.
 * Audit the whole article for snakes like this, which need to be split and recast: " The game's "Stride Cross Battle System" utilizes several features of the Nintendo DS, including combat that takes place on both screens, and a series of expandable "psych pins" that enable various forms of attack by performing certain motions on the touchscreen or by shouting into the microphone."
 * "The game received very positive reviews that praised the game's integration of gameplay and story with the Shibuya setting as well as its graphic presentation and hip hop/electronica soundtrack by various J-pop artists." Instead of puffery, why not replace "that praised" with "of". You've already said "very positive". "integration into", should it be? If you deal with the J-pop below, possibly remove the last "by" phrase, since the sentence is already long enough. If it's unique or otherwise important, retain it here, but it's kind of long, this sentence.
 * "it was also noted to be very difficult to learn"—ungainly.
 * I see choppy paragraphing in "Development". TONY   (talk)  04:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Please review the lead now. I have reorganized and evened-out the paragraphs, in addition to addressing (I believe) all of the points mentioned above (at least in the lead). ~  JohnnyMrNinja  05:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose, 1a. There are glitches all over, but the overall problem is inaccessibility to a general audience via game-guide language.  All in all, it's quite rough and needs attention preferably from a non-gamer.  Example problems:
 * I would prefer Image:Gameplay screen.PNG use the Non-free use rationale template so it's easier to identify the required rationale elements.
 * Fixed
 * "After one day's mission is complete, remaining Players are brought to the next day, with no conscious recollection of any events in between." Unclear what this means.  Do the Players live out the time between missions, or do they just skip over it?
 * They appear to skip it (no exact explanation is given, just that to the Players, it appears to skip)
 * Instances of "in order to" need to be changed to simply "to"
 * "Beat, a Player Neku met during the first week that had become a Reaper after his partner and little sister Rhyme was erased, saves Neku from erasure by making a pact with him but at a cost; he must recover the Noise form of Rhyme from the week's Game Master or be erased." I don't comprehend why this sentence begins with "Beat".
 * Beat is the character name, however, with the previous character section, the long phrase at the start can be nixed to put noun next to verb.
 * The "Story" section is not accessible to a general audience; it loses me in several places (ex. "As they search Shibuya, they discover that both living persons in the RG and Reapers wear red pins that cause them to become slave to the same harmonious thoughts.") that seem to require familiarity with the game your audience won't have. The explanation of the pins later comes much too late.
 * Within the context of the story, these pins aren't the same as the gameplay pins, and also this is the first point where they are introduced. (More below).
 * "... with each chapter further divided down by each day of the week." What's the difference between "divided down" and just "divided"?
 * "... the two characters battle the same enemies that co-habituate both "zones" simultaneously." In the words of Inigo Montoya: "I do not think 'co-habituate' means what you think it means."  Also, "co-whatever both zones simultaneously" is triply redundant. -- Laser brain   (talk)  06:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed above points w/ comments - however, this is a case where any specific input on what is confusing from the story side is very helpful because we have a game-within-a-game, and trying to keep the elements that affect characters within the story and those that are dealt with by the DS player separated is important here. --M ASEM  10:59, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.